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File: 1476652857107.png (313.5 KB, 214x300, 1464961195733.jpg)

No.2344

We haven't had a thread about religious beliefs.
I put this here in /civ/ because it's a volatile subject, if it blows up then there is no need for moving it around.
Do you believe in something?
Do you follow some religion in particular?
Else, do you have any religion that's influenced you most?
Do you have some personal perspective on the subject that's uncommon?

I personally Ch'an which is buddhism with a strong flavor on Taoism. I am not much of an expert, nor am I an avid student. I personally find it very beautiful in nature, due to it's simplicity and it's lack of a dualistic mindset (or rather, it's conception that opposites complement, rather than repel, each other).
Try to keep it civil, nobody wins anything from mindless insulting of something you don't understand

  No.2345

File: 1476653292271.png (30.49 KB, 138x200, 17a9efe6008af206121451f85626526052fe157ff4a33743aa4ab2c82110ce4c.jpg)

>mindless insulting of something you don't understand

  No.2346

>>2344
I don't believe in anything, never was much of a believer before. The religion that influenced me the most was Catholicism, since that is the most common religion here, and my family tried to raise me as one as well.

Not sure about how uncommon it is, but I never used to think that religious people are necessarily stupid, but I do find the general notion of most religions to be silly, however, I never bring it up and try to avoid any arguments about it, not because I am unsure about my own beliefs, but because of my apathy about everything related to it, that is, I just don't care if you are wrong or if I am wrong.

  No.2347

File: 1476653561398.png (168.29 KB, 118x200, snakes.jpg)

>religion
>faith
>belief without evidence
wew lad

  No.2348

>>2344
> Do you believe in something?

I believe that people want to be and try to be good people until they prove otherwise.

> Do you follow some religion in particular?


I don't follow religions but I upvote some of their posts.

> Do you have some personal perspective on the subject that's uncommon?


Uncommon in which group? lainchan? People who share the majority of my views on religion? Everyone in the world? Everyone in my country?

I don't think all of it is bullshit. Seems mostly like religion is just a form of population control. Though I doubt the people that made most of them were bad guys, they were trying to help stupid people behave in a socially acceptable way because the stupid people couldn't understand any "morality" other than "I don't want to get in trouble". Religion is a method of getting reasonable behavior out of people that can't be reasoned with. Though what counts as reasonable has changed since most religions have been invented.

  No.2350

>nobody wins anything from mindless insulting of something you don't understand
it's kinda the case of having your head too far up your ass anon

>Do you believe in something?

I'll quote vonnegut on that one.
“Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”

>Do you follow some religion in particular?

not really, my father was home-grown Buddhist who always told me that westerns can't possibly comprehend Buddhism because they weren't born in right place.

>Else, do you have any religion that's influenced you most?

Zen, the Fuke school. You see, my father never heard of Fuke, but had the same idea in his life. You can attain Enlightenment through sound, by the end of it, we're both free form drummers uncut to perform anywhere, because of that. Playing for the band to have backtrack can kindly fuck itself. Though we diverged a bit. My father believes that you need to listen to the nature and try to imitate it's sounds, while I strongly believe that you should focus on one simple or complex riddim and play it until you understand it fully.
I took that approach mainly because of my grandpa, when he got older, he started to play one and only one rhythm. I once asked him why does he plays that one basic and simple dododa doda thing to which he replied: "I found my perfect thing".

>Do you have some personal perspective on the subject that's uncommon?

so it goes, it won't disappear if you chose to ignore it.

  No.2353

>Do you believe in something?
I believe in people, I think. Also the greek goddess eris, who represents chaos.
>Do you follow some religion in particular?
I consider myself a discordian.
>Else, do you have any religion that's influenced you most?
it would probably be my years of agnostic atheism, readings on buddhism, enjoyment of discordianism works, pagan friends and the largely christian values within my culture. Although I severely doubt I have christian values.

>Do you have some personal perspective on the subject that's uncommon?

Probably? but it's a lot to get into, and I'm still figuring out for myself. For instance I see faith as a tool, and I think a scientific explanation for something does not discount a mystical one because they cover a different scope. I agree with many tenets of Discordianism, and practice "Operation Mindfuck" as a religious imperative to seek new experiences and ways of seeing the world.
-><-

  No.2354

>>2350
the fvck is "home-grown Bhuddist"?

  No.2355

>>2353
As someone who has enjoyed the concept of Discordianism a lot, I wonder about whether you believe in Eris as a being or just a concept, as well as how much it influences your actions, not just attitudes and opinions.

  No.2357

>>2354
Buddhist who only knows about Buddhism from books and never had a teacher.

  No.2358

>>2344
I'm atheist in a practical sense, but I believe in a nonsensical godlike power present in human nature that controls our actions and makes us care about each other and want to do good.


As I grew up Catholic, I alsonstrongly identify with pagan ritualistic practices and symbolic worship. They serve to calm me down and put my head in a worldly place through which I can more easily understand myself. For example, my entire life has had constant themes of cycles. I have pmdd, so I've had to cope with some very confusing and regular periods of up and down. People tell you that you need to be happy all the time and thinking dark thoughts is wrong, but by taking lessons from nature (especially the moon) I've come to accept that periodically getting depressed is imply a part of who I am and there is nothing wrong with that as long as I control it. I also believe in inherent intuition. Although not precisely fortunetelling, there is definitely something innate in all of us that can sense other people's thoughts and feelings enough to forecast events with alarming accuracy.

I'm looking more to get into paganism. I need to find better ways to control my thoughts during down times. Any pagans here know any good spell/ ritual sources?

  No.2360

>>2347
Indeed

  No.2371

File: 1476747002691.png (41.2 KB, 200x171, salvation.gif)

There's no prob with "Bob"

  No.2388

>>2344
my religious trajectory went on a strange path.

started as an apathetic catholic, lapsed into agnosticism, then through timothy leary and robert anton wilson and peter carroll i dove into the world of western occultism, chaos magick and what some would call new-age spirituality. went through a bad period, became metaphysically paranoid of astral beings around me.

eventually, while on LSD and listening to George Harrison I realized what he meant when he talked about God. Now I have faith again, on top of my magick practice.

  No.2389

>>2347
read some Dostoyevsky and Kierkegaard dude. What are you, a logical positivist?
DO you not realize everything you believe is based on faith? Some leaps of faith are greater than others, yes, but they are leaps just the same

  No.2396

>>2371
Second best ShorDurPerSav I ever had. <3

  No.2401

>Cha'an
>Mahayana
>Vajrayana

my nigga. Tell me, have you read, "Shambhala" by Tungpa?

  No.2403

>>2401
Haven't even heard of it but I'll look it up...
>The sacred path of the warrior
holy shit, this looks great! thanks!

  No.2404

>>2401
I read the Dhammapada, it's chill as shit.

The Christian version is called the Gospel of Thomas, it's also very mellow. I love it.

  No.2411

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>>2389
Read some Camus bro. Accept the absurd.
Faith is a failed epistemology. To take a leap of faith would be to commit philosophical suicide.

  No.2412

>>2350
this one.

theres not much more to add

  No.2414

About the only things that have rang true for me are Daoism, Spinoza, and maybe secular Thelema and Pirsig's Metaphysics Of Quality.

Online tests I've taken have got me pegged as anything from a secular humanist to a nihilist.

I'm like, hey, just because I don't believe in anyone or anything doesn't mean you shouldn't! In fact you should, my personal terrifying existential void is more a symptom of my generally broken personality.

  No.2416

>>2414
However, having a different personality doesn't create evidence of a god such as one that interacts with us as America's favorite religion claims.
Unless your god is god of the gaps that consistently shrinks over time or doesn't care at all about Earth or manipulate the universe other than 'making physics work'.

  No.2441

>>2416
What does any of what I just said have anything to do with any of what you just said?

  No.2442

>>2441
Your statement that your lack of belief is due to your personality rather than lack of evidence seems to be quite a common background for people that later accept a religion like Christianity later on and refer back to their lack of belief as an edgy fedora teen phase as if they were only rejecting religion based on feelings at the time rather than say logical inconsistencies and lack of evidence for claims religions make. Deistic beliefs that don't really make any extraordinary claims that should be observable sorta being exempt from this issue.
This may not be the case for you but I thought I should add that remark.
Obviously people are free to believe what they want, and that might have been what you meant hence the confusion. It's just the tie to your personality determining your beliefs or lack thereof implied more.

  No.2481

>Do you believe in something?
I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I beleive there is a small chance that someone or some group created the universe, but it is rediculously small, and our best bet is learning from our surroundings to find the truth.
>Do you follow some religion in particular?
No, I'm surrounded by it and I want it out of my life.
>Else, do you have any religion that's influenced you most?
My folks tried to ingrain catholicism into me. It only worked until my late teens.

  No.2522

>>2344
>Do you believe in something?
Nah.
>Do you follow some religion in particular?
Not really; I've dabbled with paganism and chaos magic before. I've grown very much interested in how religion affects people's lives; recently started reading about David Hume's Skepticism wherein he posits that arguing religion on the basis of fact is the easiest way of wasting everyone's time.
>Else, do you have any religion that's influenced you most?
I was raised Lutheran, but have since grew past it.
>Do you have some personal perspective on the subject that's uncommon?
Just because you have no reason to live does not give you every reason to die; that doesn't necessitate an adherence to a higher power, though. It also doesn't necessitate wallowing in your own despair, either.

  No.2544

>>2522
>Do you believe in something?
>Nah
so you don't believe in your own reasoning?

  No.2550

>do you believe in something?

are you asking my general ability to trust something?

>do you follow some religion in particular?


I was raised as catholic, but consider myself gnostics

>what religion influenced you the most


gnostics. It helped me understand some really obscure parts from bible and saved me from losing faith.

>do you have some personal perspective on the subject that's uncommon


too broad question OP

> mindless insulting of something you don't understand


barrier btw insult and criticism can be thinner than you think especially when we talk about religion.

  No.2551

I am not a firm believer in anything. I like to learn about philosophy and religion, and the more I learn, the more I consider myself an absurdist.
I don't feel empty, though.
Sometimes I feel like the universe exists in contrast - the terrible shit has to exist in order for the most beautiful things to exist. This thought makes me feel better about my life: I have been very sad and disturbed, more than the average person I think, but I can become happier, maybe.

(could also be total bs and I'm just inherently shit)

  No.2553

>>2389
lel it takes serious mental gymnastics to think that a skydaddy narrative device being physically real and guiding the whole causal system of the universe is on the same level as like what, believing that the real world exists and we can learn things? guess what, literally everything in your life that isn't shit comes from people who decided they were going to work in the real world and not live their whole lives with their heads up their own asses saying how they can't ever know anything because ~~~~~how would u no~~~~~ like grow the fuck up.

>>2388
when I took LSD for the first time I saw the total barrenness of that entire line of thought and saw exactly why people were able to do it. when I was on LSD the very first time I had so much fun with the experience of being able to make anything feel profound. It is truly a fun drug but unless you decouple the delusions created by the chemicals you're introducing into your chemically-based computation engine from actual reality, it will fuck you up and I'm sorry to hear that has happened to you. I hope you become sane again one day.

>>2544
I believe in the limitless potential of humans and other intelligent life in the sense that I think it's possible for every sentient to self-actualize but that isn't really what people mean when they say "believe in." I think that refers more to a frenzy that people whip themselves into when they start confusing their own internal state with information about the world outside their brains.

>>2551
nope, you are probably not inherently shit, also the terrible shit in the world doesn't have to exist. that is literally the just world fallacy. the universe is a crazy chaotic place, bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people, but the most important thing to realize is, EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS HAPPENS BECAUSE WE ENABLE IT. We are each causal agents and we each have the potential to self-actualize and grow and most importantly become stronger to the point where we can decide what things happen at all. we can and must build a just world, but the world we live in isn't just. The only properties of reality that are fundamental are a few properties, forces, and constants describing how those things interact. Everything else we build.

I'm sorry to hear that you've been sad and disturbed. I'm certain that you have the potential to become happier. We're humans! Think of all the things our species has accomplished with more or less exactly the same hardware you're walking around with. Intelligence might be mostly genetic but good execution and planning sure as fuck isn't. This isn't incompatible with absurdism either I just want to attack the just world fallacy because nothing is more offensive to me than the idea we can just do nothing and everything will magically sort itself out.

FUCK religion though. I can't wait to live in a 100% fully postbullshit rationalist society. That shit is going to be fucking incredible.

  No.2554

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>>2553
> postbullshit rationalist society

  No.2577

>>2553
>a frenzy that people whip themselves into when they start confusing their own internal state with information about the world outside their brains.

you mean people getting drawn into false religions and other forms of propagated nonsense?

  No.2579

>>2553
>skydaddy narrative device being physically real and guiding the whole causal system of the universe is on the same level as like what, believing that the real world exists and we can learn things
Of course they aren't on the same level. It's obvious that making statements about a specific state of the world is more of a leap than simply saying that the world is. A better comparison would be something specific within your epistemology and there we find that they're really not so different. For instance, you might believe that sand has a melting point of about 1600C. If I asked most why they believed this they'd say something along the lines of empiricism but frankly that's bollocks. For it to be empirical knowledge implies that they measured melting sand and who actually does that? They believe it because people with authority told them it was true. That we might believe this authority to be more legitimate is a circular argument. It would only be valid if the person in question could truthfully say that if they were born a thousand years ago, they'd come to the same conclusions regarding who has epistemological authority. Not impossible, but a very spurious claim.

>when I took LSD for the first time I saw the total barrenness of that entire line of thought

Surely though this is just inside your head and is therefore, by it's own assertion, barren. That you might have found it profound is, as you're saying, meaningless.

>I had so much fun with the experience of being able to make anything feel profound.

It's nice isn't it? There's a profundity in it as well, the profound is where you find it.

>unless you decouple the delusions created by the chemicals you're introducing into your chemically-based computation engine from actual reality

You cannot. Reality is just another input to that machine and everything within it is as much delusion as anything else. The world inside our heads, even the image of reality painted by our senses, is nothing but an unreliable dream.

>start confusing their own internal state with information about the world outside their brains.

It's an easy mistake to make considering the lack of difference. Information about the world outside is part of my internal state and we demarcate them as we please.

>EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS HAPPENS BECAUSE WE ENABLE IT.

Word. There's a wonderful passage in the Principia Discordia, one of those barren books. A prophet is talking to the goddess. He says, "Why is there so much hate and war and suffering? Please, can't you do something?" She says, "But I thought you liked it like that?" He says, "What? No, it's awful and everyone hates it." "Well stop doing it then," she says.

The world is one thing but wisdom is wherever you find it.

  No.2612

File: 1478674069967.png (529.74 KB, 200x112, why.gif)

>>2577
>false religions
Are there objectively "true" religions?

  No.2625

>>2579
>You cannot. Reality is just another input to that machine and everything within it is as much delusion as anything else. The world inside our heads, even the image of reality painted by our senses, is nothing but an unreliable dream.

tell that to the bullet

  No.2634

File: 1478680026030.png (24.89 KB, 125x200, discordia.jpg)

>>2612
No, there isn't.

  No.2676

>>2625
I can't. I could tell it to the image of a bullet that I have in my head but the bullet is removed from me. There, but inaccessible. That I might base my delusions upon my senses doesn't make them any less delusions. Even looking at the bullet under an electron microscope puts the lie to my conception of it. It's not a solid object as I think of it at all, it's a bunch of individual particles with a lot of space between them and even that's a cry from their reality as waveforms or whatever. As much as I hate to judge, I feel it's a fool prerogative to deny the existence of a reality at all but that doesn't mean our conceptions are anything more than faded shadows, delusions.

  No.2734

>>2676
Will it kill you?

  No.2742

>>2344
I believe in God. I am a protestant Christian, which means I am in the minority on Lainchan, though not alone.

  No.2747

>>2734
Which one? (there are 2 of course, Ceci n'est pas une bullet) and why is that relevant to the difference between how I conceive the world and how the world is?