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File: 1480217400807.png (50.18 KB, 300x225, Fidel Castro.jpg)

No.3294

Fidel Castro is dead.
What do you guys think of him, Che, and Cuba?

  No.3295

one of the better dictators out there tbh

  No.3301

Americans hate this guy, OP. He was a thorn in their side for sixty years. He was resisting US hegemony as best as he could, he was shining beacon of hope for independance for all of Latin America. Instead of giving up his country to become yet another generic satellite, he made Cuba great again - a country with powerful allies and with a say on the world arena. Rest in peace, Fidel.

  No.3304

>>3302
>overthrew a democratically elected government in order to have Chile run by a bunch of American economists
>hope for independence
libertarians are fuarrrkin' stupid, man

  No.3305

>>3304
that or a troll. I'm surprised at the lack of reaction in this board. I thought the local population of Lainchan would be more interested in global politics.

  No.3306

File: 1480266367905.png (120.34 KB, 200x96, 1468282771157.png)

Credit where it's due - despite huge embargoes, Cuba managed to... well, it functions as a nation. Zero freedom of speech and 100% state control of media, the "free" medical system is utter garbage, but hey, he was working with literally nothing.

For me personally?
He gave Trudeau (both of them) another opportunity to embarrass Canada on the world stage by playing buddy-buddy with a dictator.

Glad he's dead.

  No.3307

>>3306
Got a source for those claims?

It was my understanfing that Cuban healthcare was among the best in the world, and Cuba basically trains doctors for all the rest of South & Central America

  No.3309

>>3307
The embargo means that there's a lot of old equipment and drug shortages. It's bullsoykaf to call it "utter garbage," though.

  No.3310

>>3307
>>3309

There are some great hospitals in Cuba, absolutely. But they aren't for Cubans.

But for all the wonders of communism, those hospitals aren't available to the actual Cubans. They're for show, to save face, to try and convince the world that they're doing fine.
Largely, while the doctors themselves are often very skilled (and thus more than capable of providing training, as you note) they tend to lack pharmaceuticals (due to embargoes, as I mentioned), their facilities are almost always underequipped, suffering from poor sanitation and disrepair. Further, the doctors, while skilled, are often overworked and undercompensated for their round-the-clock efforts.

The authoritarian Communist government also results in a lack of choice for both paitient and consumer - dissent is criminalized, you get what you get and if that isn't what you wanted, too bad.

The notion that these hospitals are in any way competent comes from "healthcare tourists" - foreigners get access to the top shelf healthcare that ordinary Cubans can only dream of, in exchange for their greatly desired foreign $$$.

https://panampost.com/belen-marty/2015/10/06/inside-the-cuban-hospitals-that-castro-doesnt-want-tourists-to-see/

  No.3311

File: 1480268197746-0.png (65.48 KB, 200x200, cuba1.jpeg)

File: 1480268197746-1.png (71.53 KB, 200x160, cuba2.jpeg)

>>3296
Before the Revolution literacy rates averaged 52%: by 1988 it was over 99%, one of the highest percentages especially compared to developed countries.
Before the Revolution kids in the countryside had next to nothing; now you'd struggle to find a kid without shoes on their feet.
Before the Revolution there was a dictatorship that presided over massive inequality and served only the runaway bourgeoisie. Rather a popular dictator that doesn't soykaf on the majority of the population. Pic related. It's the "freedom" reactionaries want to inflict on Cubans.
Cuba sent more doctors to West Africa than any other country. The US is now begging for a vaccine developed in Cuba supported by El Comandante.
Might as well sweep away the achievement of having the healthiest population in Latin America and give them the "freedom" to be exploited through illness and left to die.
>>3305
They are, rather they are quite unenthusiastic about this board which both causes and is caused by the disproportionate amount of stereotypical Nazi/ayncrap soykaf spreaders like >>3306

  No.3314

>>3311
>stereotypical Nazi/ayncrap soykaf spreaders like >>3306
So disliking communism and dictatorships makes you a nazi or something?

  No.3316

File: 1480268992061.png (47.42 KB, 200x149, Fidel_Castro_Twilight_Zone_04.jpg)

just one more think, maybe you think Castro is the best leader in the world. Lets say for argument that he is. What happens when the next guy comes along and he's soykaf, or a tyrant, or greedy, etc.
The problem with dictatorships is not the individual merits of any one leader but when you do get a soykaf one you can't get rid of them. Dictatorships would be the best way to govern if you could guarantee the quality of leader, but you can't.

  No.3322

>>3310
https://panampost.com/jose-azel/2016/11/23/the-worlds-new-political-ism-might-be-egalitarianism/
I have a hard time trusting a source that not only equates egalitarianism with communism, but actually suggests that egalitarianism is literally communism

  No.3323

>>3316
I agree with you. Dictatorships are always bad, no matter what political position the dictator might have. Right-wing dictators are worse than left-wing dictators, but that is just my personal preference.

But the real problem is that US hegemony forced countries like this to have a dictatorship. Other countries that experimented with a democratic form of socialism got overthrown with help from the CIA, like Chile when Allende was elected.

  No.3326

>>3311
>Before the Revolution there was a dictatorship that presided over massive inequality and served only the runaway bourgeoisie. Rather a popular dictator that doesn't soykaf on the majority of the population. Pic related. It's the "freedom" reactionaries want to inflict on Cubans.

This is the big one for me. Castro was no saint, and neither were his allies, but Batista and his cronies were full-scale banana-republic despots. People ought to read up on the pre-revolution history of Cuba before they start bitching about Castro. The revolution would never have gained popular support if life were actually good for Cubans under Batista's reign.

Even after the revolution, the Cuban government wasn't planning on a full-scale communist setup. That only came after the US government went totally apesoykaf over their loss of control of Cuba's economy, and Cuba had no choice but to turn to the USSR for help.

  No.3328

At 50, a man has has the face he deserves.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRkNDHW3nog

  No.3333

Dissent doesn't get you prosecuted at all. But you might get shunned and lose your job, because your superior thinks all dissenters are USA spies, things like that.
I'm worried about the possible successors of Castro; It takes one bad leadership to ruin an entire country.

  No.3334

File: 1480285799669.png (794.3 KB, 200x113, ┙┙).gif)

>>3305
>I'm surprised at the lack of reaction in this board. I thought the local population of Lainchan would be more interested in global politics.
There is interest in global affairs. The death of an unelected political actor in a small island country doesn't leave me with much say.

I'm more interested in the affairs of the living and whether or not most of Cuba will be above sea level 50 years from now.
http://phys.org/news/2013-04-cuba-vast-losses-sea.html

  No.3356

he did a lot of good work, cuba for a while had one of the highest standards of living in latin america, but ultimately he was a brutal authoritarian soykafhole

  No.3358

>>3356
I like to think of Fidel as the ideal dictator. Objectively improved a lot of things and was generally pretty chill.... but he was still a tyrant.

  No.3360

File: 1480366213730.png (1.43 MB, 60x200, vtb05s80r50y.jpg)

>>3306
Pic very related

>>3311
Lets talk about those numbers lain. Those numbers were the highest in Latin america at the time. 55% literacy? The wages for industrial workers under Batista were like the 8th highest in the world...

Castro didn't make things much better for the average person. It's pathetic to see a bunch of people who have never lived in Cuba crying over the death of a Cuban despot. If Cuba was so great why doesn't everyone in Miami hop back onto a raft to go back there?

The truth is that Castro's regime was a brutal dictatorship, if you ever talked to a Cuban you'd know that jackass.

  No.3361

>>3311
Before the Revolution literacy rates averaged 52%: by 1988 it was over 99%, one of the highest percentages especially compared to developed countries.
According that is, to UNESCO, which also reports that North Korea has a staggering 100% literacy rate.

People continue to buy Cuban propaganda to this day and that is sad.

  No.3362

File: 1480367492855.png (13.8 MB, 200x113, Michael Parenti on the Cuban Revolution-npkeecCErQc.webm)

>>3360
>if Cuba was so great why doesn't everyone in Miami hop back onto a raft to go back there?

because they don't like the communists, duh. Most of them were exiled because they weren't fans of Fidel, not the other way around. It's purely political.

>if you ever talked to a Cuban you'd know that jackass.


webm related.

I'm not a fan of the Cuban government either, but it's dumb to just straight up ignore its achievements.

  No.3411

>>3360
>The wages for industrial workers under Batista were like the 8th highest in the world...

Uh-huh. And what percentage of the entire Cuban population were those industrial workers?

  No.3412

He was a faggot. Should've nuked the US like he promised Che.

  No.3414

Castro ended up dictator of Cuba after landing with 23 men in a leaky yacht.

It is hard to be more strategically successful than that.

Guerrilla war seems like a strategy that only gets better over time. Contemporary guerrilla fighters can recruit from inside their enemy nations (Nice, Orlando are examples), they can attack infrastructure that causes several orders of magnitude more damage than the cost of the attack (an IED costs hundreds, a blown-up pipeline millions), and they can (in theory and in practice) use the Internet to network globally.

It's surprising to me that Castro and Guevara were as unsuccessful as they were at exporting guerrilla war. Where did they go wrong? I've heard that Che was very dismissive of the Congolese fighters he trained and was likely very racist towards them (intentionally or no), but it seems difficult to ascribe all of the failures of their strategy to factors like that.

  No.3431

>>3414
>I've heard that Che was very dismissive of the Congolese fighters he trained and was likely very racist towards them (intentionally or no)

Well, everyone knows that spics are horribly racist.

  No.3456

>>3323
>Right-wing dictators are worse than left-wing dictators, but that is just my personal preference.
W-what? The actual stats on right vs left dicators is severely towards the left in terms of how many people got killed during their regime etc and also just compare 1930s Germany with the USSR or Cube or N-Korea or China. Right-wing dictators are a really bad deal for everyone 99% of the time but they sure as hell aren't worse than left-wing dictators (not saying Fidel couldn't be an exception much like H,itler was).

  No.3457

>>3414
While I agree that guerrilla warfare has gotten a better change at success _on the local level_. The whole of the government however has been continually more abstracted and more secured and dispersed with corporations starting to play slightly larger roles nowadays.

There's no easy answer but I think It could even be argued that guerrilla warfare has gotten worse because with modern technology people can be given more luxury while still keeping them under rule. The PC and electronic media are such examples. PC games and netflix, chans and hobbyist forums etc. People can do a lot while behaving well, even in less well off countries.

  No.3468

>>3456
Right-wing dictators were usually too dumb to survive against their enemies and many supported by the Soviets. Set aside this you can count WWI as far-right first major massacre and then the "body count" will be much more equal within the "sides" but i doubt it matters for the victims at all.

  No.3474


  No.3517

>>3457
You're entirely wrong. The fact that governance has become distributed out to economic networks makes guerrilla war more effective, not less. Read Assange's state and terrorist conspiracies and John Robb's Brave New War for extensive breakdowns of this concept, but hierarchical networks (i.e., centrally controlled networks) have many more choke points and weak links than can be effectively defended. Modern infrastructure is more distributed, not less, and local areas are less locally resilient.

Clearly 23 men in a yacht could not have toppled the American government of the 50's, but Islamists (and hopefully others, it would be a shame if only the Islamists figured out how to fight modern war) are essentially doing the same thing now by attacking American networks. You can fight guerrilla war against corporations in the same way -- this is what MEND is doing against Shell.

Also

>There's no easy answer but I think It could even be argued that guerrilla warfare has gotten worse because with modern technology people can be given more luxury while still keeping them under rule. The PC and electronic media are such examples. PC games and netflix, chans and hobbyist forums etc. People can do a lot while behaving well, even in less well off countries.


For one, this seems a non-sequitur, what does PC gaming have to do with the effectiveness of guerrilla war? It has also become far easier to equip and outfit small groups of warfighters with sufficient firepower to do serious ($MM worth of damage for dollars of spend).

For another, this belies a very serious misunderstanding of "less well off countries." The next billion internet users go up to a year without connecting their smartphones to wifi. Suggesting that "chans" (who have maybe 1% of Facebook's userbase) move the needle at all belies a pretty lopsided understanding of modernity.

  No.3562

Taking into account how Batista's rule was, and how it's doing even with the US embargo I say it was OK
Cuba would probably be on a far worse shape if the revolution didn't happen.

  No.3563

>>3517
By all means start your guerrilla wars. That's all I'm going to say to someone with a conviction such as yours.

  No.3805

He really showed how much Americans have their heads up their ass. Unbelievable how he and some guys with little to no military training turned the whole situation upside down.

You'll be missed, Fidel.

  No.3812

>>3301
You mean by hosting Guantanamo ?

  No.3813

>>3812
"host" is a strong word. I'm pretty sure the Cuban government has tried to get it removed since forever, and the US has certainly never held off from hostilities because of it.

  No.3836

I'm not so keen on communists, but Fidel Castro needed a powerful ally such as the USSR at the time, in order to stop the American mafiosi controlling his country. Drugs, gambling and prostitution are not exactly a desirable business model for a country.

  No.3843

>>3836
Indeed. Luckily Cuba managed to build enough internal strength to survive the USSR fall.

  No.3844

>>3310
Why would go through all this discussion when Cuba as a lower child mortality rate than the United States and pretty damn long life expectancy.

  No.3845

Both were based, Castro survived a hundred CIA assassination attempts more than JFK and Che was a badass, he fought in... three different countries or so. So, unlike modern leftists, they were alright and actually cared about improving the world.
Fidel didn't even want to side with the USSR in the beginning, but the US forced his hand since they wanted to put someone like Batista back in power.

>>3813
Yeah, they can't take back Guantanamo. The contract predates even Batista's government if I remember right. If Cuba tells the US to GTFO the US simply won't. If Cuba tries to move troops in the US will wait until the first shot then take over the whole island.
With the deal they have the US gives Cuba a cheque every year. Castro never cashes it since it would legitimize the deal. The amount is a joke too since it doesn't correct for inflation.

  No.3846

File: 1483161130341.png (84.07 KB, 145x200, untitled.png)

I recommend reading One Minute to Midnight by Micheal Dobbs. Good book on the Cuban Missile Crisis but also about the politics and state of Castro's Cuba at the time. Gives a lot of info on how Cubans didn't really like Castro's communist system but rallied behind his nationalist pride because of fear of US aggression. It's also really chilling how willing Castro was to use the nukes not only on American soil, but also to blow the fuck outta any US invading force in Cuba. Excellent read.

  No.3892

>>3845

Castro must have been chuckling just before he died. He'd survived every covert-ops dirty trick the US government could throw at him for over half a century, and he ended up dying peacefully of old age in his own bed, while surrounded by friends and family, and enjoying the general goodwill of his fellow citizens. It was one last metaphorical middle finger to the neofascists infesting the US government.