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lainchan archive - /cyb/ - 33378



File: 1468793475090.png (61.2 KB, 300x169, _82707726_471801764.jpg)

No.33378

You're now living in Turkey.
Turkey's going to shit.

What's the first thing you do to resist the Erdocunts without getting captured.?

  No.33379

Why fight when the population supports him and the country is Islamists? It's not your country.

  No.33380

>going to shit
It already was shit. "Democracy" doesn't mean the country isn't functionally a malicious autocratic state. You just don't here about the censorship and abuse because you're hearing about football.

Here was the re-election video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQaCdUJAXe0

  No.33381

I flee.

  No.33388

>>33378
Depends. If I have no family to worry about, I join the PKK. Otherwise I flee.

>>33379
>why fight Hitler if his country supports him?

  No.33400

>>33388
It's more like trying fight Hitler in 1939. The opportunity passed a decade ago. People had the opportunity to fight. They didn't, or they lost. Why start now?

  No.33409

>>33400
>Why start now?

Because it will only get worse?

  No.33419

>>33409
I guess that's a good point. Idealistic and stuff. If I was living there I would bail though, seems like a war that that just had it's last battle. The coup was the dieing breath of the secular movement, there was barely anything left, now it's even worse.

Fighting against regional/world trends seems hopeless. Maybe in 20-40 years.

  No.33431

>>33378
Hopefully you already have weapons.

If you don't, join an Islamic militia. This will get you weapons and remove suspicion from you.

Exclusives are the most valuable thing you can have. Store them in a remote area, maybe in a place you pay a fee to the owner of. Show up with a lot of cash and your big gun, intimate you're affiliated with organized crime, and tell them you need a shed for construction material. Wear clothes you've never worn before for this, disguise yourself however you can, etc. Optimally you can just find a person down with shady shit and pay him without intimidating him.

Get a map of power converters, substations, and pipelines, if your area is lucky enough to have any. Put them into a list and sort it randomly. Randomly generate as many numbers as the previous list between 14 and 40.

These are your targets, and the dates you'll hit them. Put timers, not cell detonators, on them. Ideally, have a tape player or something play a loud warning to evacuate before the timer detonates - we want to have as few bodies as possible.

Figure out how long it takes to repair a substation, and alter your minimum date and maximum date after the first several so that there's always one or two substations out of operation at any time.

If a substation is guarded, hike a bit away from it and put smaller charges on the towers the wires are on. Generate a random number with the max depending on how much time you have and how far you can move; also, feel free to just drive further up and break the line far away from the substation. The harder it is for you to get to, the longer it will take to repair.

After a few months of the regime not being able to supply its citizenry with power, its legitimacy will be severely weakened, and people will look to alternatives. When an area pulls away from the AKP, however you want to measure that and if that's still possible, just skip them when you get to a substation that would directly affect them.

  No.33432

File: 1468854561343.png (48.49 KB, 200x190, 1404852424907.jpg)

>>33379
... Can't you properly interpret those 3 sentences?
It's a hypothetical question.
Just think you're living in some modern Soviet Union for all I care. How do you handle things. Information warfare, protests, disruption of the shitheads, etc.


>>33380
>"Democracy" doesn't mean the country isn't functionally a malicious autocratic state.

That's the point.
He only has power now because one of the opposition parties didn't want to join in a coalition against them. There's still plenty of secularists around,
So how do you remove the shit.


>>33400
>>33419
Fight em when they don't have enough power yet to turn things to shit & they're seen as some kind of martyrs of democracy.

Whilst it would have been better if the coup succeeded now seems like the best time to actually fight as a civilian & gather more popular support.
The ones behind the coup still have some support & Erdocunt is going all out on the regressive policies.
Sacking an enormous amount of judges & parts of the military, arming his supporters, etc. There's bound to be some kickback.

All in all the question wasn't what do you do when the country goes to shit. It's what do you do to resist.
I hoped more people would have understood that. It's bloody hypothetical. 'You have to fight back; how do you do it?'

I've heard plenty secular turks lamenting the failure of the coup being asked the same question: "Why don't you leave" & most either have important stuff they can't leave behind, actually want to resist or don't have enough money to successfully immigrate.

>>33417

There's the possibility that it was a false flag but then it was by the erdocunts not some "worse party".
The army is a bunch of secularists though future continued purges may change that. Gulen the one they whom they framed as the one behind it whilst an Islamist doesn't even have enough influence in the military to try.
Whilst probably less repressive than Erodgan he's exactly the type of guy they'd have to right to organize a coup against.

>>33431
This guy gets it

  No.33453

>>33446
> What would you do when faced with an oppressive "democratic" regime slowly crawling it's way to absolute power.

answer in haiku:

Am American.
Am watching this shit hit fan.
Am not doing shit.

  No.33466

>>33453
There are plenty more substations in America than there are in Turkey

WAY easier to fuck with the grid, too

Leave a lainchan sticker at every site, they will love and fear Lain

  No.33627

File: 1469130079517.png (2.79 MB, 200x150, tunnel.webm)

>You're now living in Turkey.
>Turkey's going to shit.

>What's the first thing you do to resist the Erdocunts without getting captured.?


Stay far away from the shitstorm.

First thing to do is get your passport or other travel relevant documentation together if you don't already have it ready to go.

Second thing, if you're able, is to locate work some place where it's politically stable and travel to that place legally.

Just a reminder that the EU and other developed nations with advanced social welfare programs may discriminate against economic migrants, so you may want to try acting extremely gay or something. Having a job lined up and documentation to prove it will help.

Go where you're welcomed or needed; it's bloody frustrating attempting to work (or even applying to work) legally in a country that makes it difficult or expensive for work-ready immigrants to enter.

  No.33655

>>33627
>Just a reminder that the EU and other developed nations with advanced social welfare programs may discriminate against economic migrants, so you may want to try acting extremely gay or something. Having a job lined up and documentation to prove it will help.

>acting extremely gay


trying to leave legally is a good idea, but you have no idea how legal immigration works. I've been involved with refugee groups and my girlfriend works with an organization that helps place refugees in my city and "acting gay" will not do a single thing to improve your chances of gaining legal immigration status.

Basically the only thing you can do short of getting a wife and/or kids (families are heavily prioritized) is play up tech job skills.

It certainly doesn't have anything to do with "social welfare". You've been reading too much alt-right propaganda if you think it does

  No.33663

>>33378
>What's the first thing you do to resist the Erdocunts without getting captured.?
Leave the country. At once.

>cant' leave the country

I guess go full Tor/ZeroNet and try to find resistance groups. Even if I'm a fighter I'm not a leader/charmer. Will put my services to those who can lead a proper resistance.

  No.33664

>>33663
so, join the PKK?

  No.33665

>>33664
Don't know much about PKK nor the Kurds for that matter, aside that they're nomads, (I think). So they might be the lesser of two evils.

  No.33666

>>33665
Kurds aren't nomads.

The PKK is a formerly-insane Stalinist sect that has since reformed to be of a more libertarian and less weird bent. They have significant ties to Rojava.

  No.33668

>>33666
>formerly-insane Stalinist sect
hell no

>has since reformed to be of a more libertarian and less weird bent

well, this seems more like my cup of tea, but to be honest I would need to educate myself extensively on this before joining them to see if we're into the same line of thought. Assuming we are, then yes, I'd join them. Assuming not, then I would try to increase the safety my family/friends communicate, both actively (through education) and passively (setting up tor without their knowledge, forcing them use FOSS where possible, etc). Perhaps set a few tor relays and go full bitcoin.

  No.33674

>>33660
Yes, my point is that the "approach" doesn't matter at all.

Groups that get refugees out of dangerous countries and then establish them in other countries have a set list of things they look for. The list is ordered in ascending order of how likely the person could survive on their own in their resident country.

The list looks roughly something like this, but don't take this as gospel truth.

parent-less children
at-risk groups
father-less families
intact families
young women
young men with economic prospects

middle-aged men without any sort of job training or applicable skills or a family are basically not even considered. The refugees my girlfriend sees come into the country (US) are basically exclusively families.

technically a gay man could fall into the "at-risk" group but if you think people don't try to claim homosexuality to gain asylum you're naive. The orgs look for people who have actually had threats or legitimate harm brought against us. If you claim to be gay and then end up beaten to a bloody pulp by a gang then yes your chances of getting out are probably higher. Just telling an immigration agent you're gay, nothing's gonna change.

This list isn't any way to rank people by worth, it's an attempt to triage the unthinkable numbers of people trying to leave war zones. The organizations working with refugees are critically underfunded and spread incredibly thin, they take the people that they're worried would be dead without their help and have to leave anyone they think can fend for themselves behind.Even the people that do get out have to go through years before anything happens, I know teenagers who have only known life in refugee camps before coming to the US.

  No.33716

>>33668
The modern PKK have some very interesting ideas, inspired by Murray Bookchin (and a load of philosophers we've probably never heard of in the west).
Rojava (Kurdish controlled parts of Syria) is basically an experimental anarcho socialist state. Kinda like Catalonia in 1936, only they're getting dicked on by Turkey, Isis and Assad instead of Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin.

Anyway, don't just take my perspective, see what you can read for yourself :)

  No.33722

>>33721
It's not the duty of a society to help those from another society.

I don't care if the sand people die because they can't make functioning societies. I only care if it affects my life.

You may think this is selfish, but it's perfectly reasonable. We don't live in a world where you can help everyone you want to. It's also a fact that terrorist groups want to infiltrate Western society under the guise of being a refugee.

This isn't everything, but is already more than enough justification.

I'm an authoritarian, just so you know.

  No.33727

>>33725
I'm only >>33722. I just decided to jump into the conversation.

>Although you should know that the ideology you're describing is a more base one, it's what's called tribalism. It's the ideology of me and mine vs them and theirs, and people like me consider it very dangerous.

That sounds about right. I was just telling you what I associate the closest to.

>Please try to seek out and talk to a refugee in your own town or at least someone who works with them. It will be very surprising for you I'm guessing. They're people too, and it might make it harder for you to advocate leaving their friends and family to die at the hands of dictators and genocidal nut cases harder.

I'm fortunate enough to not have any so-called refugees in my area. I'll work to keep it that way.

  No.33745

>>33378

collect my USRP modules and broadcast my own DTV propaganda along with blast short wave radio.

Set up an IMSI catcher with voip and start listening in on calls that might be related to oficial business to determine if there's a conspiracy (might get lucky).

Begin scanning all governmental agencies websites for vulnerabilities or standard logins and various other points of intrusion. Like shitty ftp login credentials that'll allow me to dump material.

Use rubberducky/badusb strategy to purposefully infect computers at various agencies.

Be unobtrusive and quiet about the intrusion until enough evidence is collected. Then leak.

  No.33756

File: 1469220189081.png (11.3 KB, 200x200, 1395599613054.jpg)

Guys OP here. I know many people want to have a refugee debate or simply think the best thing to do is to get out but the question was about how to resist so just imagine you can't.

I mentioned Turkey but really I'm just fishing for things that are applicable in any situation where authoritarians start taking over trough democracy. This is a scenario that diminishes your options greatly since the regime would be able to use violent acts against them to legitimize themselves: see Turkish coup.

  No.33838

>>33756
Keep a low profile. Same way you avoid govt attention anywhere else, don't make a name for yourself.

There's plenty of arguments to be made for the opposite, to try and fight back in any way you can, but if you're actually worried about violence you should just fly under the radar.

  No.33839

The best thing you can do ATM is to lie down low and prepare infrastructure for the new uprising.

  No.33845

>>33844
How are the admins around to ban randos getting angry in other threads but this /pol/ anime spam gets left alone?

Did a link to this site get posted on /pol/ or something? Where are these kids coming from, and why can't school get back in session any faster?

  No.33846

>>33845
fuck you too.

  No.33850

>>33722
>they can't make functioning societies.


read a fuckin history book.

banned

  No.33855

File: 1469266307690-0.png (1.05 MB, 200x113, 26981176722_d9a9bf519d_k.jpg)

File: 1469266307690-1.png (625.69 KB, 134x200, 27207669252_80ce384c8b_k.jpg)

Any further talk of refugees will be met with fire and brimstone.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for being ON TOPIC and actually answering what the OP asked, my answer is below:

Assuming I live in a first world, western, english speaking nation like I currently do which has become autocratic, I would have to keep my head low. Firstly I would very carefully find what can and cannot be said or done, creating a public persona that perfectly fits the governments "ideal citizen" mold.

After this is accomplished I would begin to create a network of extremely trusted contacts who share similar sentiments of hate for the ruling party. I would hand them small written details on an exact method to communicate online via encryption. This card would have a key, encryption method, contact details, contact times etc. All sensitive talk would be done here while keeping up a "ideal citizen" persona on normal social media with talks of cats and parties or whatever.

I would make sure to segment all my contacts. Each has a different time, key, encryption method and so on. And they do the same. From here, as my ComNet foundations are laid out I can begin active retaliation on the ruling powers.

The primary goal would be to destroy those figure heads that hold the major power while simultaneously aiding a popular uprising in the form of mass protests. To accomplish this several objectives would need to be achieved.

Firstly, recon. Find out who holds the real power and who is going to step into the power vacuum when these people are dead or retire. Both these identified target types must be eliminated to some extent very shortly before, or during, the uprising. After all, if the top ten people giving orders all drop dead an hour before rebels start knocking down doors, who's going to defend the dead bodies in an empty government building?

Next is to inspire dissent, hatred and protest (violent or not) against the ruling party. This can be accomplished with social media, propaganda and hopefully the violent lashes of the autocratic government will distance the populace from the government.

The more raids, patrols, shootings and censorship the government does the firmer their autocratic grip gets. But if it is obvious to the people that a group remains fighting against these things, despite them, then the people will have hope. The more the government uses force (and hopefully collateral damage) against "freedom fighters" the better. It's not hard to see who's the good guy in this scenario, especially in a secular country.

Finally is the action. There may be years between recon and action, or weeks, but whatever the case you must be willing to lose your life, your friends and your family for your cause.

You find weapons and courage between when you start and the by the time you get here. One may be considerably harder than the other depending on the country's laws, black market weapon trade, government weapon seizures and the size of your balls.

Now you must arrange for the killings of the key targets you identified some time ago. You may well die in this attempt, if so, try again. Using simple tools like .22 cal rifles, ANFO, mobile phone bomb detonators and not much else you should be able to deal substantial damage in a cell of well drilled, well motivated and well organized individuals. The killings must all be done within 12 hours, preferably at night, giving the government as little time as possible to react and install an emergency leader.

If you're really lucky more than one high ranking official will claim legitimacy and fight the others for power. That night or the next morning you must motivate the people to come out onto the streets en mass. Your small team of assassins may be capable enough to seize a large government building in the same night and claim public legitimacy for a (hopefully well known) brand of rebel government.

Depending on how large you've built your cell, you may be able to hit several targets at once. Radio transmitters, TV transmitters, DNS servers and other public media could be attacked, occupied and reworked to show propaganda and support for your rebellion.

If all went exactly to plan (somehow), you should be looking out the dictator's office window with your gang of freedom fighters, waving a rebel flag out the window to a crowd of supporting onlookers while the military fractures at the thought of shooting their own friends and families to restore the old powers.

  No.33860

File: 1469284919379.png (3.87 KB, 200x10, 2016-07-23-164015_655x32_scrot.png)


  No.33861

File: 1469285336238.png (129.19 KB, 153x200, 1445136462764.jpg)

>>33855
You could sum that whole thing up in two words, Einstein, 'guerilla war.'
And good fucking luck if you're not joining up with ISIS, because then you're fighting a war with an organized government on one hand, and a much larger guerilla movement on the other.
You're fucking dead in the water unless you get material foreign support. And even if you do, have fun keeping things together when they leave.
>>33846
>>33850
>kalyx still has thinner skin than a 90 year old woman
Nothing changes, does it?

  No.33869

>>33850
Arguably there are few contemporary Islamic theocracies which can be considered well functioning.
Ignoring the ubiquitous human rights violations from these states, one may consider the prevalence of militias (a damn good metric for how well a state is functioning).
A good chunk of them are fighting off IS takeovers, or quite recently had fundamentalist theocracies (the taliban) in government and are barely recovering. One mustn't forget as well Nigeria's plague of Boko Haram, a militia whose popularity is perhaps less a sign of the countries poor function, but a direct result.
But as previously mentioned, the perhaps more concerning aspect, present even in the more stable instances of Islamic theocracy such as Saudi Arabia, is the willingness of these states to violate human rights conventions as an inherent consequence to their adoption of sharia law.
Be it due to misinterpretation of religious scripture or not, the other lain's comment was not entirely inaccurate.

  No.33878

>>33861
Ech, Rojava's holding together.

  No.33928

>>33716
You know what's funny, and humbling for me to admit, is that I always though Bookchin was kind of dumb. Granted I only read his later stuff and not the "classics" of his but all the people I knew who swore by him were the sort of people it was impossible to have a reasonable discussion with and would brand you a traitor, racist, statist, anything really if you disagreed with them in the slightest way.

It turns out that his ideas are actually applicable and sensible in a place like Rojava. I may have to check out his older books now.

  No.33945

>>33928
I don't like Bookchin either, his theories are wish-washy. But he's a big step over Stalin and thye're shaping up very nicely.

  No.33951

>>33860
To be fair, kalyx isn't a mod, he's God here.

  No.33956


huh? why was my post deleted? it was pretty harmless (was just an opinion about >>33380 vid)

  No.34011

File: 1469408142158.png (50.34 KB, 170x200, 7f6f27887632a781616be7be853f2b5f.jpg)

>>33945
>>33928
I'm not sure that Bookchin really inspired policy in Rojava, it's just that the leader of the PKK read Bookchin's critique of marxism while he was in prison, and so the PKK became less "Stalinist"/marxist and more anarcho-socialist.

  No.34071

>>34011
I was under the impression that his books are very popular there now. I have come across this in more than one article. The same articles have also suggested that the place was somewhat cosmopolitan and not given to a single school of thought.

  No.34200

The posts ITT don't show a lot of understanding of the current Turkish political situation.

The forces opposing Erdogan in Turkey aren't monolithic. Secular Turks want to seem him replaced but they don't want a breakdown of society. The Kurds want their own state and all their activities are in furtherance of that goal; they'd like to see him replaced with anyone who will be less capable of preventing their breakaway. Erdogan used to be a sugar daddy for ISIS; now that he's (apparently) on the outs with them, they want to blow things up and cause chaos in Turkey, partially out of spite and partially to weaken the country.

These three groups are strongly opposed to each other, so the first step toward figuring out how to resist Erdogan is to decide which of the above groups you're identifying with.

  No.34201

The average anti-Erdogan Turk is probably secularist, so let's assume that's the group you belong to. As things are in Turkey, the best resistance to Erdogan can probably be accomplished through networking and entryism. First you'd want to make as many connections with secularists as you can, masking this activity as routine socializing rather than revolutionary networking. Have sensitive conversations in person, not electronically.

Next, the entryism. Erdogan *claims* that the coup attempt was made by the Gulen organization, which is a creepy cult that's been working over decades to infiltrate Turkish institutions. It's almost certainly backed by the CIA, and it has a lot of similarities to the "Family" group that some US politicians belong to. No one aside from CIA agents has any fondness for this group, and its passing from Turkey is a good thing for anyone who isn't a Gulenist.

Erdogan has purged tens of thousands of Gulenists from the government and military, and this may provide the best method of subverting hm. Many of Erdogan's AK Party officials graduated from a network of religious schools. These schools are good at producing brainwashed robots but not so good at instilling useful skills.

Now that the Gulenists are gone, there are now a lot of openings in the government that need to be filled ASAP. A lot of secularists are well-educated and qualified for these positions. If you fit the bill, do your best to get one of these jobs. If not, encourage someone who is. In either case, work on creating a network of informal support for secularists who are rising through the ranks of government.

  No.34203

Get secularist influence cemented in the government as thoroughly as you can, then wait for Erdogan to slip up. Due to his overwhelming popular support, it's extremely unlikely that you could unseat him in the near future, but if the economy tanks, a war starts or something else goes awry, he'll be vulnerable. His followers have a major advantage in numbers, but their thought process doesn't go far past "allahu ekber," and if the average Turk's life starts going haywire in ways that Erdogan can't fix, they're going to start wondering about alternatives. Hopefully at that point, a network of secularists within government will have built up and strengthened to the point where they're able to challenge him. Patience and coordination are key.

A violent overthrow is extremely unlikely to succeed, everyone in Turkey but the Gulenists is now fiercely opposed to coups and moving in that direction will alienate all potential supporters. This strategy is all written to apply to the current Turkish situation for someone who isn't content to simply GTFO of the country. If you're living somewhere else, like North Korea, GTFO is probably the only remotely sensible option.

  No.34204

reminder the "coup" was fake

  No.34462

>>33378
First thing to resist? Start using a different name online for each of the separate things I do that might get me captured.

  No.34464

>>34462
(to go on a little farther than just "First thing")

I would also need more people on my side.

I'd have to start making the government look bad.

I'd have to make the effort of revolution look better than continuing with the current regime.

I'd have to have a plan for a post revolution government so people wouldn't think it'd just end up the same old shit of revolution leading to the new boss being the same as the old boss.

I'd have to decrease morale among troops going along with the regime to get them to stop fighting.

I'd have to get the plan for post revolution government working before the revolution is "over" to help people transition to new country order.

My plan would have to look better to everyone than the current regime is.

I'd have to make sure the people don't get fooled again.

  No.34466

File: 1470030516561.png (83.45 KB, 200x142, Hacking_Permit.jpg)

>>34464
here. forgot a pic for the last two posts.

  No.34468

>>34204
I wouldn't say it's a fake. It felt like they purposely let it boil over so they could have an excuse to purge the inner circles for a tighter grip onto power.

  No.34733

>>33951
That doesn't excuse his pissy behaviour.

  No.34741


>>33860
>>34733
If you have a problem, go post about it in /q/ and we will happily discuss it there.

Stay on topic.

  No.34753

>>33727
I haven't seen hot pocketry like this off of 4chan. Stop cheapening yourself, mod. It's not too late to change course.

  No.34755

File: 1470436034276.png (3.81 MB, 200x113, 1444887503277.webm)

>>33756
I think the best tool for defeating authoritarian overlords (like Erdogan) is strong encryption.

I know whatsapp has been having run-ins with the Brazilian gov because bra opposition has been using it for comms. They have end-to-end encryption and weren't storing peoples' conversations so they could never comply with subpoenas for info.

If there widespread apps like that, that didn't have access to user data people could and didn't do all the nasty tracking stuff, maybe it would be easier to organize opposition.

As it is now it would probly make the most sense to record the violence that the gov and its supporters are carrying out against innocent people. Anything to humanize the situation for Western spectators increases the chances of some sort of humanitarian intervention. Otherwise, people in other countries have their own shit to deal with and they'll leave you to figure shit out (see based tribalism gods above). Maybe make a collective of anonymous people that document and report on nastiness they see.

  No.34770

Thread is locked, you may remake this thread on >>>/civ/ so long as you follow the board rules.