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lainchan archive - /cyb/ - 35075



File: 1470984904115.png (373.93 KB, 219x300, image-01.jpg)

No.35075

This is Ira Wrinkler's "Are you a hacker or are you a clueless teenager?" test from HOPE '97. A little bit dated but I think it still mostly holds up. (tweaked the wording slightly to apply in 2016)

How do you rank, Lain?

"""
> 1.) Have you ever written a 3rd generation language program of more than 500 lines?
[Yes] = +1pt
[No / Can't even code] = -1pt

> 2.) Can you understand attack scripts line by line?

[Yes] = +1pt
[No / Don't even know how to script or don't even read scripts before running] = -1pt

> 3.) Can you port scripts and programs to other platforms?

[Yes] = +1pt
[No] = -1pt

> 4.) Do you modify your tools for optimization / bug fixes / etc ?

[Yes] = +1pt
[No] = -1pt

> 5.) Have you at least TRIED to write an attack script based off a security advisory?

[Yes] = +1pt
[No] = -3pts

> 6.) Have you installed Linux or any other alternative OS on your own computer?

[Yes] = +1pt
[No] = -1pt

> 7.) Do you find and install needed patches and SECURE and harden your systems?

[Yes] = +1pt
[No] = -1pt

> 8.) Can you network multiple systems ?

[Yes] = +1pt
[No] = -1pt

> 9.) Can you get shared printers working on the network?

[Yes] = +1pt
[No] = -1pt

> 10.) Have you ever maintained a multi-platform network?

[Yes] = +1pt
[No, but I know about it] = +0.5pts
[No] = -1pt

> 11.) Have you ever stolen a telephone handset because you think that makes you a phreaker (or other similar behavior)?

[Yes] = -5pts
[No] =+1pt

> 12.) Have you ever intentionally damaged a system that you hacked?

[Yes] = Don't even total your score. You fail.
[No] = +1pt

/* ~~ _ [ T O T A L .. Y O U R .. S C O R E ] _: ~~ */
/* ~~ 7 to 10 pts ==> You're probably not clueless. */
/* ~~ 5 or 6 ==> You're off to a good start. */
/* ~~ 0 to 4 ==> You are definitely a clueless teenager. */
/* ~~ 0 or less ==> GTFO. */
"""

  No.35076

>>35075
>"Are you a hacker or are you a clueless teenager?"
>Calculates cluelessness based strictly on knowledge
>Doesn't factor in existing aptitude or willingness to learn

A good test otherwise, but to me the desire to know things Drumpfs actually knowing them. Why? You desire to know how a network operates and what its loopholes are for a reason, because you think that knowledge might be useful to you. Someone who ranks 7 or above but doesn't really care about applying the knowledge is really useless, which is worse than simply being *clueless*, you feel?

Cluelessness can be cured simply because that potential exists. Uselessness will rarely be cured, and only ever by an outside source. Even then social/personal conditioning may render that person useless anyways. Regardless, if that weren't the case, I'd still rather teach a clueless person the required knowledge than convince a useless person to be useful.

  No.35086

>Have you ever intentionally damaged a system that you hacked?
This is actually the best question there is as it implies rm monkeys and whitehats are not real hackers. The real hackers hack into systems for fun and learning, but do not damage anything. Real hackers are like digital urban explorers.

Remember, in the world of urbex and hacking, you never disclose PoEs or vulnerabilities. Unless you are a fucking tourist/script kiddie.

  No.35088

>>35086
I don't necessarily agree with that, depends what is meant by "damage". in general I see complaints like that as generic high horsing

>anyone who goes further than me is a skiddie / no lifer / not a "true" XXXX


>anyone who doesn't go as far as me is a skiddie / part timer / not a "true" XXXX


>only people exactly like me are a "true" XXXX


don't get me wrong you shouldn't be going around fucking shit up but every body thinks they are the exception to the rule.

  No.35090

>>35076
I do agree with you overall, but just saying "I'm clueless but i'm willing to learn" is pretty useless imho.

I run into people like this all the time. They talk about how they're "willing to learn" but can't even understand a basic script, or have never even tried to install Ubuntu. I simply don't take them seriously.

My question is: if you're so 'willing to learn' then why the hell haven't you learned anything??

We were all novices at one point. There's nothing wrong with lacking knowledge.
But you have to go after it yourself; no one is going to hold your hand for you.

  No.35092

>>35075
>>35086
Well, fuck. I was doing amazingly good till that part. When i was 12 i destroyed a computer for revenge. I'm 23 now, i know better, i think.
Am i beyond salvation?

  No.35093

>GTFO
:(

  No.35094

This really isn't a great test. Most of the questions are just kinda arbitrary. It reads like someone who hasn't been doing this for that long and is finding reasons to look down on the people who are where they were a year or two ago. You get the feeling they recently had problems setting up some shared printers.

> 12.) Have you ever intentionally damaged a system that you hacked?

This is the worst question because it associates morals with skills. You can fuck with your definitions until these people aren't "real" hackers but you shouldn't ignore the fact that some of them have serious skills and labelling them all clueless is just inaccurate.

>>35090
Yeah. A lot of people seem to think it means "I'm clueless but willing to be spoon fed". They stay clueless.

  No.35099

>>35092
I worked without contract and got screwed out of money, too little to try to pursue it too much to just brush it off. Destroying their server and backup was my way of revenge, I'm not really a hacker anyway so maybe the test is correct.

  No.35100

>are you a sysadmin? Find out with these 8 easy questions!

  No.35101

>>35100
And people say that lainchan is a "good chan" when people make these buzzfeed like threads

  No.35102

> Ira Winkler, CISSP
https://archive.is/7r61n

You sure want to take this smug bastard's judgment as something of value?

If it was moxie or bunnie or someone with true credentials, then sure listen to them.

But seriously? this good for nothing asshole with a "CISSP"?

> Can you get shared printers working on the network?

My sides.

  No.35104


  No.35106

>>35075
>Have you ever intentionally damaged a system that you hacked?

I once broke into a house and performed a layer 1 DDOS attack against the person's computer. :^)

But in all seriousness this test is stupid and most of it can be learned from textbooks for beginners, or even simple articles. This shit isn't even "hacking" it's just generally common knowledge.

  No.35107


  No.35109

>>35075
>Have you ever intentionally damaged a system that you hacked?
On systems you own yourself its fine, usually try to pwn my network few times a year ( audit ) and apply new security patches on my test server and look how much damage i can do before i apply them on the production network.

It's quite fun and you keep your own systems clean of any damage you try with fucking shit up.

> 8.) Can you network multiple systems ?

This can be from your home network ( 2-3 devices ) to large scale operations there is quite a difference between those 2.

  No.35111

>Have you ever intentionally damaged a system that you hacked?
When I was young hackforums type of lad I got bored once and on one of my zombies I put screenschot of his desktop as his wallpaper and stopped his explorer.exe so he didnt have any icons on and I saw him trying to open things up and stuff like that
Was fun for 3 seconds

  No.35122

lol I think the phrack high council shit was better than phrack itself

http://www.digitalsec.net/stuff/website-mirrors/pHC/62/p62-0x0b.txt

  No.35124

>>35122
Was there ever a #64 issue? On the website, it says that it was removed.
Why would you remove something that has a power of 2 as a number, isn't it sacred? What happened?

  No.35627

Moved to >>>/tech/27572.