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lainchan archive - /cyb/ - 35440



File: 1471423507954.png (862.11 KB, 300x130, giphy.gif)

No.35440

I see threads about anonymity, to the point of suggesting to not own a phone.
What's with all this fear?
What do you have to hide?
What are the actual bad things that could happen for having your life online?

Honest questions, I genuinely don't get it.

  No.35441

>>35440
>What's with all this fear?
with modern statistical techniques combined with their enormous amount of data, governments and corporations have the potential know more about you than you do. That should scare you.

>What do you have to hide?

absolutely nothing.

>What are the actual bad things that could happen for having your life online?

-you can get doxxed.
-If you do anything illegal you can get caught more easily. Note that just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's wrong.

  No.35444

>>35440
Databases of real-time information about every citizens location, relations, transactions, internet, personality, etc. Categorized into generalized profiles and groups. Linked together to form complex social meshes that interact and influence each other. Does this not frighten you? This much power and control?

>What's with all this fear?

>What do you have to hide?
"Saying you have nothing to fear because you have nothing to hide, is like saying you don't need any freedom of press because you have nothing to say." Great quote from snowden.


>What are the actual bad things that could happen for having your life online?

Not much really. But if your profile raised any alarms, even if you weren't doing anything wrong, that might not be the case anymore.

Also, people are known to be influenced by the internet as well. A well placed propaganda campaign could influence you in ways you might not even realize. Elections results could be influenced simply by changing the order of results a google search returns. Or social media amplifying certain opinions and drowning others.

  No.35445

>>35444
wait it wasn't freedom of press, it was free speech.

  No.35451

Well, one really good example is how some companies will sell your data. Radioshack did this and it made some headlines. But of course, this USUALLY just means some annoying asshole starts calling you trying to sell stuff. But it can lead to identify theft.

Now, of course, some people will try to imply that you have to be a terrorist or a pedophile (or anything else bad) to want privacy, and of course they do for obvious reasons but regular everyday people (at least some of them) want it because of the implications of these massive databases and hackers who want to get into them.

  No.35453

>>35440
> What's with all this fear?
> What do you have to hide?
The problem is not me. The problem is them. They are the thieves and I lock the door.

  No.35463

>I see threads about anonymity, to the point of suggesting to not own a phone.

For the sake of answering this.. Phones have a fuckton of data about you and associated to you on them. Not to mention IMSI catchers to intercept your traffic are a thing, capturing cell phone conversation metadata is trivial for LEO/Intelligence Community, and SMS is just as bad.
BLUF: If you have a phone its subject to monitoring, just like any other communication device. There are risks you have to accept.

>What's with all this fear?


Some people are really fucking bad at threat modeling and think that the Intelligence Community and/or LEO are out to get them

>What do you have to hide?


If you have shit to hide, you shouldn't be putting it online to begin with.

>What are the actual bad things that could happen for having your life online?


Doxxing and OPSEC leaks, which if you're doing any hardcore illegal shit like that which could get you fucked by LEO if you slipped up.. Well, you wouldn't be asking these questions.

  No.35473

For me it's not a question of privacy but freedom, and more importantly agency... With an overseer, our choices are curated, therefore our decision are manipulated, intentions influenced... you cannot be truly yourself if you are also theirs.

Freedom is first mental, then physical. Youtube playlists are the atomized form of this influence. Watch one funny video and the next thing you know it's been 2 hours and you don't even remember what you saw... But something stays with you, doesn't it?

  No.35488

>>35440
Take the leftist movement which in the 1930s and 1940s was extremely anti-fascist. The government supported a lot of this movement's members during the war.

Come the cold war these same people were rounded up based on the same lists the government made in the 30's and 40's.

Just because things are okay now doesn't mean they will be forever. No one forgets anything you do online ever. Storage is essentially free to any organization with a non-trivial budget.

Ultimately if you don't care about your own human rights, I don't know what to tell you.

"
Zuck: I don't know why.
Zuck: They "trust me"
Zuck: Dumb fucks.
"

  No.35495

File: 1471464749640.png (107.5 KB, 200x134, aaaaaaa.jpeg)

>>35440
>What's with all this fear?
Because the whole system is designed to track everything at every stage. It is able to guess your desires and thought - your leanings and also prove every movement you make, and contact you have! And although it MAY currently be used "correctly" (which it is not all the time) this power and insight when put into the hands of a future ruler might be turned on the people in a very very bad way - don't think it cant happen here, it can happen anywhere - bad people don't respect borders. And history has shown us this does happen! - Just never with such devastating technology!

If the state could see all, would religion ever have faded? Would gay/womens/black rights have existed... would even the Vietnam war protests have got any momentum? or would any movement outside the party line be crushed instantly!

What if things you right today could get you killed tomorrow?

>What do you have to hide?

My own thoughts.

>What are the actual bad things that could happen for having your life online?

Nothing - as long as you totally 100% portray the party line. Which is not your life is it?

>I genuinely don't get it

Freedom is a continual fight, it is not a right, and it has not been won.

  No.35496

>>35463
>bad at threat modeling

Pretty much this. There are legit reasons to want to hide but most people here are no different from normies. As in, not important.

  No.35506

>>35496
personally I do it mostly for fun.

  No.35508

For me on a personal level it's all about a lifestyle. I do not agree with the rules in the stabilished system, therefore i prefer not to contribute with them.

I wouldn't go to jail if the world saw all my data, but i think it's important to have the option.

  No.35524

>>35440
It's not only about the single individuals' right to privacy, it's about the survival of society as well. when big corps and governments have collected data to such a great degree that they know you better than you do know yourself, they can start not only predicting everything you do but even what's the best way to influence what you do. just think about elections: with a big enough amount of data, a govt could know which choice of words use, which buttons to press in order to trigger the wanted reactions from the public. and here your democracy goes to the toilet.

  No.35526

>>35440
Oh look, a NOTHING TO HIDE NOTHING TO FEAR thread. Yet another example of why /p0l/ trash should be purged from this site.

  No.35529

>>35440
OP

ill do this one time
and one time only

it is not what you have to hide,
it is what others can find.

information put correctly into place can lead to many different
outcomes affecting your private life.

you have an affair? maybe mind that
your spouse doesnt know it.

you like watching cartoons?
maybe you dont want your banker
boss to know.


it is when information grabs into social interaction, when you and
your person are open to display
and for interpretation by anyone
taking time looking into it. then
it is the time you wouldnt mind a
little privacy.


other examples:
when your credit gets denied
because the guy thinks your an asshole, as he is informed about
your behaviour.
and as his coworkers value more
his point of view, as he is the
son of the boss.

so your actual value as human-being
is being diminished by your ability
to get information on others and
hide your own as good as possible.

you are literally weeding yourself
out of the genepool, by giving away
personal informational patterns.


the question is not why is anonymity an important factor.
anonymity is true democracy.

give a man a mask and he will speak
the truth.
take it instead, and you will never
find out.


i respect anonymity and privacy because id like to see how is the
way, humans can archive their survival and evolve the system into
a working one, without relying and falling back on primitive aspects
of their worldviews.

and the other opinions above count too of course

  No.35534

>>35440
It depends on who you are exactly on how far it makes sense to take these things. Are you Julian Assange? Are you an activist working against the Chinese government> Are you trying to keep your communications safe from skiddies, pro-level hackers, or state level actors with infinite resources?

>What's with all this fear?

I'm not necessarily afraid, but I think the fact that the government being able to access and log all my communications and associate them with my real life identity is gross and invasive as letting the NSA install CCTV cams in my house.

>what do you have to hide?

Who knows? Do you necessarily know what information might be used against you now or in the future. With all the material I'm sure we've all torrented, pretty much every one of us could be fined $1000's or worse depending on where you live. Employers or future employers might be make decisions about your career based on potentially anything they can find about you on the internet.

>Actual bad things

-You get fired/not hired because of stupid shit someone thought was important that week
-a stalker could stalk you more easily
-You could be fined or jailed for something you said or did. A dossier on your activies could be amassed by your state for whatever purposes they choose.
-being spied on when you've done nothing wrong is bad in itself. From your perspective, especially if you've done nothing wrong. The flip side to "I have nothing to hide, why do I care?" is "If I'm not under constant suspicion, why is the government keeping tabs on my communication, location, and social connections as far as possible?"

  No.35535

>>35526
please, friend, let's not even get started with the whole invasion thing. We are not doing any good by calling them forth mkay?
Let's keep it sane and nice

  No.35547

>>35440

If you're not paranoid already, I would like to point you to an important book titled Three Felonies a Day.

https://fee.org/articles/three-felonies-a-day-how-the-feds-target-the-innocent/

The author illuminates how it doesn't even matter whether you think you are doing something illegal. Federal law has become so convoluted, and invasions of privacy so commonplace by commercial interests like Google, almost anything you do online or in meatspace can be used as leverage against you should you come in the crosshairs of the state.

This is only one of the important reasons to me. There is also a very well-written paper I would have you read that qualifies the value of privacy per se, and addresses exactly your question: "nothing to hide, nothing to fear?"

http://cups.cs.cmu.edu/soups/2014/workshops/privacy/s4p3.pdf

Anyway even if you don't agree with these points, you now at least have a starting point for trying to understand them.

  No.35550

>>35526
>(The OP says "Honest questions, I genuinely don't get it." -- read it before you make baseless accusations.)
Whoever you are. "nothing to hide nothing to fear" threads like this happened on /g/. It'll start like this and slowly have more posters going on about why people's fears are unjustified with really shitty reasoning and calling the security conscious posters paranoid while the posters explaining why you should worry will slowly give up due to having to explain the same shit over and over.

  No.35579

Privacy!=OPSEC.

Wanting to hide your data from the NSA or similar, even if that's just on principle, is totally reasonable. They are stealing that shit. The lains talking about this data being correlated in such dangerous ways are going out on a limb. It's not unthinkable but it's not proven either. We know it's used for trend analysis stuff but we don't really know how effective it is. Maybe they're really good at it, maybe not.

My attitude is "Fuck 'em." They decided, secretly and illegally, that they are entitled to collect the data of a large portion of the world without their consent or even knowledge. No, fuck that and fuck them. I don't have much of an impact by myself but that's not the point. Lead by example, even if no one follows.

>>35550
So don't give up. You are always going to have to explain the same shit again and again. There are always gonna be more newcomers and so on. Don't wear yourself out, you don't always need to get the last word.

  No.35581

>>35579
>We know it's used for trend analysis stuff but we don't really know how effective it is. Maybe they're really good at it, maybe not.
Look up the NSA's SKYNET program, then consider that they've had a few years to advance that technology even further.

  No.35584

Not op but sometimes i wonder where you people live. I'm up for privacy as much as the next guy, but damn. Most of you people think you live in the 1984 book.
I know the US do spy on their people for possible terrorist attacks or some other bullshit, but I'm pretty sure the rest shouldn't have anything to fear

  No.35585

File: 1471552756082.png (189.29 KB, 154x200, data rention by major cell service providers.jpg)

>>35584
>Most of you people think you live in the 1984 book.
Have you taken the time to look at all the ways the NSA and advertisers are spying on you? It's normal now days for your cell phone company to sell your location data to advertisers (they don't give your name and number, but companies have ways of finding out who you are when they have map of your day to day movement), some ISPs are doing deep packet inspection to find out what information you're looking at so they can use it for advertising purposes, and modern browser fingerprinting can collect enough information about not only your browser but also your hardware (canvas and audiocontext fingerprinting, there have also been experimental JS CPU benchmarking scripts) to uniquely identify you if you're using a regular web browser with JS enabled and has a good chance of uniquely identifying you even if you have JS disabled or are using Tor with JS enabled (only safe way to avoid it is using Tor with JS disabled). That's what regular businesses are doing, the NSA easily passes that, from the Snowden leaks we know they have databases such as:
>XKeyscore
Stores any data sent over the internet that isn't encrypted such as your searches, emails, posts, etc. for 3-5 days.

>MARINA

Stores metadata for all internet traffic. Possibly including HTTP headers so your entire internet history down to the pages you visited for every website you visit that doesn't use HTTPS and just the more general history of what website if the website does support HTTPS. Stores data for 1 year.

>MAINWAY

Stores metadata related to phonecalls such as caller, receiver, date/time of call, length of call, etc. for 5 year.

>DISHFIRE

Stores text messages for 1 or more years.

>FASCIA

Metadata about cellphone connections to cell towers. Stores data for an unknown amount of time, most likely at least a year considering how long carriers already store the information.

>SOMALGET*

Audio recordings of phone calls. Stores data for 30 days.

*only applicable in some countries

All that bulk collection is done without a warrant (their claim is they don't need one unless they look at the data) and that information is 3 years old now and the NSA's Utah data center wasn't completed yet. Since then Russia has started requiring phone companies to keep audio recordings of calls on hand for 6 months, so it's completely possible that the NSA's SOMALGET program is now running world wide. Another major problem is now every federal agency has access to the NSA's databases. Given how there were already cases of that information being abused when just the NSA had it, how much abuse do you think is going to happen now that significantly more people now have access to the information? Are you not cautious of giving websites unnecessary personal information in case they get hacked, then why shouldn't one be cautious of what information they readily give the government?

  No.35587

>>35585
Of course we're cautious, just as everyone else on this board. The thing is that most of this things are "what if" and hipothetical situations.
I don't remember if it was this thread or another one, but I'm with the drek who said that we gotta run on controlled paranoia mode. Going full paranoia only makes you act like an autistic asshole

  No.35592

>>35587
>The thing is that most of this things are "what if" and hipothetical situations.
Again, the data the NSA collects has already been abused and now that every federal agency has access to it that will happen more often. Private companies are collecting this information so they can more effectively try to manipulate your opinions and views of the world for their monetary benefit and you should therefore be concerned about giving them anything (and no longer is that done by just blocking cookies in your browser). Furthermore, there is no not worrying about this information collection until they start doing something bad with it because by then it will be to late. We no longer live in a time where all you have to worry about are wiretaps or other snooping in real time, now it's completely possible for them to look back at what websites you were going to or who you were texting and what you were talking about a year ago (or possibly even further back as the NSA's capability's have expanded since the Snowden leaks). Companies that do background checks already collect fucktons of information from various places, what's to keep them from getting some of the other data that's already out there on people's private lives so that companies can know whether a person could make them look bad or for other reasons (Riot Games already asks for any accounts you have on their servers so they can check your chat logs for that purpose)? I've already lived to see low paying entry level jobs require you to do personality checks to make sure you line up with what they want.

  No.35606

Moved to >>>/sec/2.