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lainchan archive - /diy/ - 2111

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Alright, lainchan.

I recently inherited a single acre of land in the middle of 'Fucking Nowhere, Alabama'. I pay 108$ in land taxes every year. There is a single house.

However, all of the wiring and plumbing has been stolen from the house (scrap metal is a large business here). It can be a blessing in disguise, since the house is older than 1960. The plumbing is still hooked up to the base of the house, and an electrical pole is still near. My family has been kind enough to replace the roof and flooring.

I want to make a home for the rejected. In my direct company, people have been disowned and thrown out for being gay, atheist, and for other non-nonsensical reasons.

How can I turn this shithole into a paradise with the least amount of money as possible? Can I create a commune/colony to stand the test of time?

I don't have pics, yet.

>tl;dr I have an acre of land and a shit house. Help me make it cyber as fuck.



Pic not related.

Just an idea, I guess.


Remove all weeds on roads, plant grass, plant tomatoes and other greens in the back.

Concerning plumbing, that's a lot of work to restore it. Maybe you should consider using "temporary alternatives" indefinately. Maybe set up a sink and water tank above it, refilling it periodically. There are portable toilets too.

Concerning electricity, I would recommend contacting electricians. You will need it regardless.



I want self-sufficiency down the line. Electrical is easy (windmills, solar, etc.) But independent plumbing sounds nearly impossible.


Maybe use rain collectors or local rivers/wells for collecting water for drinking and farming and the like.

Build an outhouse shit/piss. You shouldn't be shitting/pissing in good drinking watter anyway.

If you need to poop indoors, like on a shitty rainy night, then you could use the vandweller aproach of a 5 gallon bucket and pete moss or saw dust over it, and just empty is in the outhouse daily.

You can build an outdoor kitchen with a good wood stove in a cheap pole barn style structure.

You can build communal outdoor showers.

Once you have those types of communal resources then you can let people build other small structures on the land as well to live in.

Electric can be gathered through solar, but this will be a big investment.

Also check out the lainhouse thread on /cyb/.


>But independent plumbing sounds nearly impossible.
Centralised plumbing is a thing of only last 100 years. People had water, sinks, bathing and other water appliances before. All local, without central authority. Like lainon already said, you can have toilet outside. Just dig a pit and set a seat and make a cabin around it.

Solar won't be cheap - it will be more than 5k just for panels. There are fuel-powered generators that can work on anything that burns, but I haven't looked up their prices.



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I think I would rather just pay for plumbing than shit in the ground.

I want it to be a paradise for cyberpunks, not serfs.

Luckily, there is already a pipe from the ground there, I just need to repipe and rewire the house. - Any suggestions on this?

pic related - some ideas for the smaller houses. The main house could just be a supply hub or a glorified outhouse.


the best I can come up with is to hire an electrician, and plumber. faulty wiring can kill


Perhaps you can hire some sort of geology expert to see if you can build a strong well for water.

I have been living on one for 15 years. Never had to pay a water bill. Also I never went out of water, even when my neighbours all went out of water. Guess I won the lottery on that one.


Can I come visit in my van?


you can have a septic tank instead of a sewage line.


those generators are pretty sweet.
My grandparents have one, and they use it with wood, gas and gasoline; I don't know about the costs though.


Turns out my relative have one too. It requires a few little furnace tweaks to convert to gas, but that's relatively easy.

The cost was around 1k USD few years back. It runs easily on pellets (cheap woodsaw waste), wood coal, fossil fuels. It is pretty great indeed.
>I want it to be a paradise for cyberpunks, not serfs
B-but what about low-life part of cyberpunk? Nothing wrong with having conveniences outside, don't call it serfdom, it hurts. At least you don't pay for it to megacorps. Also, make sure to dumpster dive for computers.

Do you have a pump in your well? I have well too, but it is a crank and bucket. It was unused for a loooong time too, so it probably needs cleaning. I saw a well-cleaning team ad, just need to get to it some day. Our city-supplied water is horrible.


These Lainons were discussing a Lainhaus.


Any pics of the house/ land to see what we're dealing with?


Possible on a single acre, but less likely to be anything like self sufficient the more people you choose to add unless they're willing to work and are efficient people. Get a good idea of who you want living with you in a community like this because several around my city have collapsed because of lazy people and thieves trying to piggyback on and steal from their trusting and accommodating neighbors. You posted a trailer home so check out the tiny house and homestead communities on reddit to see if you're cut out for it. My father started growing his own vegetables and fruit when he retired on 3/4 of an acre this year and the savings are decent if you're willing to put in the effort. He grew up farming but most people can do it. Chickens are easy and cheap too (up to you if they're cyber, color their feathers partially blue or something) and provide eggs for protein and fat then decent stewing meat when they've outlived their use after a few years. Consider a goat or two as well and you'll never have to mow. Build a big ass fence if you're farming.

Solar would actually be much more doable on trailer/ portable home than a large dwelling because you can adjust the positioning and the power draw cant be high enough to need a huge array. A big solar setup can be cheaper if you DIY it but the work involved to get it right is more than most think. A multi fuel generator only costs between 1 and 2 thousand dollars as well and is a good cheapish supplement if you run it on gas. Wind is hit or miss and I'd only use it to charge batteries during the day, which solar does just fine depending on location and at least where I lived in alabama it was more likely to be sunny than windy.

>repipe and rewire

Hire a professional for the house. No jokes. Both of those can be disasters if done wrong, be it fire or soaked walls and floors. You can always pay for a minimal job where you have like a single bathroom and power in a couple rooms (heavy duty extension cables are your friend) and you can have it expanded later on as you need/ want more.


File: 1466619521476.png (2.27 MB, 200x72, house1.png)


I guess this is the place, then. I am going to need the help to build it. You don't think people are going to miss the big cities?

pic related is best I can get. It goes back for a long time until heavy woods, but all the trees you see there (besides the one giving shade on the smaller house) have all been cut down.

It is not an 'exact' square acre, the land is more of a rectangle. The smaller house on the left is mine, the larger one belongs to family.

>Get a good idea of who you want living with you in a community like this

I have been asking myself that. What criteria would I have for letting people in? It would be hard to turn away people in need.

>Hire a professional for the house.

I also have a plumber and an electrician in my family.


>hard to turn away people in need
I get that. I've taken in people before who've needed somewhere to go for awhile, but I expect something in exchange usually, often house and garden work since they don't have much money. As far as vetting people goes just think that factors in someone's life can cause then do do selfish, dangerous and damaging things and it's really a case to case basis judging their risk to you and your property. I've refused to let an old friend into my house because she's been kicked out multiple times by multiple people for stealing (drug habits) and I can't afford to risk that

You aren't always the right one or in the right circumstances to help everyone.

If it's just a kid who's been thrown out for being gay or atheist like you've said, sure. Work to help them find local employment while they stay there and/or put them to work on improving and maintaining the property, especially if you want it to develop into a community. You need to make sure that unless they're there for a very short time like a few days that they have something useful to bring to the table. There's always a grace period before that though, I'm not heartless just realistic.

>plumber and electrician in the family

makes things much easier


Jesus, cost of living out there must be almost nothing. Are there farms in the area? I'm sure Alabama doesn't have the farm shares/stands/etc other rural areas I've been had since it seems more peasant and less hipster, but I'm sure you could work out something cheap with anyone who grows food.

A few freelance devs could easily finance the whole thing...


The cost of simply keeping the land is ~100 a year. I hardly believed it myself.

>I'm sure Alabama doesn't have the farm shares/stands/etc

Yes, people do farm, but it's independent. I could pretty much borrow tractors and equipment from neighbors.

I suppose I could run computer repair business from the home, since I imagine no one fucking else knows how around my area.


I can link a lot of files on farming, survivalism, self-sufficiency, all that prepper crap.
I have no idea how to stop assholes from tearing down everything good in this world that others try to build, if you find a manual for that please post it.


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Sun Tzu's Art of War?

Update on the house:
A tin roof has been put on the house, the siding has been repaired, and the floors have been redone. We looked closely to see that the plumbing is in fact intact, as well as the air-ducts.
The thieves only stole the wiring, it seems.

My family has put 11K into it and we leave within the year.

Any ideas for rewiring the house?


Nah it's not worth farming a single acre. You should have a garden, but more than that you should buy from farmers around you. It'll be crazy cheap compared to stores, even in Alabama.

If this is going to be LAINCOMPOUND it'll have much more human occupancy anyway.


Don't try to do it yourself because you'll die and this project will fizzle.

Get quotes from electricians; maybe find good local people by talking to your neighbors. Some of them might have had to deal with thieves as well.


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Family has a master electrician. We can do it, I was just wondering if there were some cool ideas to install before it's all done and the walls are put back up.

Would hydroponics be feasible if built in a separate building?


Some ideas.

Run cat 6 while the walls are torn down. This is cheap and totally worth it. Bonus points if you run 3-4 drops per socket so you can do air gapped subnets and vlans properly at full duplex.

Install cat6 to good vantage points so you can install IP cameras, WiFi access points, and networked speakers later. Bonus points if you just use RPis to do all 3 at once. Don't worry about wiring power here just use POE. Make sure the cameras and wifi can be wired to their own dedicated firewalled subnets.

Maybe wire extra 220v or high amperage 110v lines to potential server cabinet closets.

Install a port into an externally facing wall near your server closet so you can run cat6 out to van dwellers that might visit.

Install easy hatchways halfway along each wall to allow access to lines in the future.

Make the outer walls of the entire house into a farraday cage. If this is too expensive then do it to at least one or two closets or rooms so you can let some techies do fun stuff with radio and let tinfoils get their tinfoil on.

Install power, cat6, and conduits on the top of walls so you can mount projectors and what not.


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Thank you, this is the kind of advice I wanted. I didn't want to have to tear down walls 'again' if I had an idea down the line.

>Make the outer walls of the entire house into a farraday cage.

Damn son, I don't know about that. Maybe a room, but doing the house is impossible, given the way it's built. Also remember I have no money until I find employment there (all money is spent on flipping and selling the current house).

I have an Matrix E7 network switch. Would that work to connect everything?

Thank you. I wish I could just get everything in that GVCS.


File: 1467105225620-0.png (6.85 MB, 200x200, Photovoltaics for Rural Electrification in Developing Countries - A Roadmap - Tania Urmee et al. (Springer, 2016).pdf)

File: 1467105225620-1.png (1.67 MB, 200x200, radical_mycology_text.pdf)

File: 1467105225620-2.png (731.63 KB, 65x200, backyard_farm.jpg)


If you wire the whole house you'll need a few more switches. You can replace the switches, it's harder to replace the cat6 in the walls


btw, for people who have nowhere to go, having a roof is already a paradise (or close to it).


This image is wrong. 2 acres is too much.


Totally agreeing with this, retrofitting ethernet cables is a fucking pain, and the cable itself is pretty cheap so not putting in the walls is a waste. This way you don't have to rely on wifi so much and it is completely worth it.

Aside what is >>2158 even on about?
Rewiring a house is literally the easiest task you can do in a house, you can google the basics if you've never done it before.

The hardest thing is plumbing in my opinion, just because I hate working with water.


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Electrical and plumbing is all harmless if you know you can just fucking turn it off while working on it.

But I learned that plumbing, floors, and roof is all done now.

I really like the idea of visitors being able to wire up to me - but we have another problem, folks. Alabama has really shitty internet service in the rural areas. I think Charter is the only option.

Also, it turns out the land in front of the house uses a creek for drainage, meaning only the back of the land can be used for visiting and parking. I will need to science the shit on how to properly arrange housing and parking in such a small area while including a wall/fence.

This network switch powered an entire school with 30 computers. How could it not control a colony of >~10?

Especially if you get plumbing working.

How could I theoretically force the use of a VPN on the property? Is that even a good idea?


>This network switch powered an entire school with 30 computers. How could it not control a colony of >~10?

Personally I would want to physically segregate some subnets but if it's a big enough switch and you're happy with the control interface than sure.

You can force a VPN just by having the router route over a VPN, it's easy in Openwrt and similar.


>How could I theoretically force the use of a VPN on the property? Is that even a good idea?
You can setup vpn use in OpenWRT touter, or find/dumpster-dive old pc and use it as firewall/access point. There are millions of guides on how to do both.


A while back I set up a RPi to act as a router + bridge forcing all traffic over an ssh tunnel to a cheap off site vpn. Using sshuttle + iptables + ufw + dhcpd this is trivial to configure and gives you all the benefits of ssh.

You can easily modify the TOR Pi project instructions to do this.


>people have been disowned and thrown out for being gay, atheist, and for other non-nonsensical reasons.
>make it cyb as fuarrrk
Pick one and only one





Never been to Alabama but have lived in or near rural areas all my life in other states. If you are truly out in the middle of nowhere (living in a small town doesn't count) then the you most likely have a well that the plumbing is hooked up to, especially if it's from before 1960 as I don't think they would have run water far outside of town for people in the 60s. All the people I've known who live more than a few miles from the nearest small town have wells. For internet you're likely going to be stuck with DSL/WiMAX or dialup/satellite if you're not lucky. If you're looking to grow food/raise animals I don't think you're going to be able to do more than some chickens and/or a decent size garden on 1 acre if you want to have yard space leftover for other things.

>Can I create a commune/colony to stand the test of time?

Not likely on one single acre unless you want little living space per person.


Instead of focusing on making a sweet space for cybs and lains to come together and do something creative or productive; like a remote hub that lains around the world can connect to and americans can actually visit. Instead, the criteria to enter means you have to be a gay athiest with no place to go.
Nothing to do with technology, or cybersec, or networking or even computers.
Just be a homeless homo.
Why not just have it is as a cyber punk, lains only area, instead of bringing sexuality and religion into it?


>the criteria to enter means you have to be a gay athiest with no place to go.
OP said people who were disowned with no place to go, those could have just been chosen as examples due to where he lives. I do question how well a home for the disowned that's out in the middle of nowhere would work though as the disowned would need jobs to get on with their lives and they likely aren't going to find that in the middle of nowhere having to commute long distances to work.


That's why OP should pick one and only one.
The most viable and more straight forward would be to do a little lain hub, because you could turn the thing on and off whenever no one there or it wasn't in use. Keep the living costs low, grow what you can off the land and eventually you would have a pretty shway setup that was a mix of both nomadic and cyb to keep everyone interested in the project as a whole.
Running a homeless shelter is basically a 24/7 job and you may get shanked by a crazy.


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>Why not just have it is as a cyber punk, lains only area, instead of bringing sexuality and religion into it?

Strictly, it's not a home for wayward atheists or gays. It's a home for those who have none or anybody willing to lainhaus. In that area, however, those people are treated the worst.

I never said people could stay for free and do nothing, either. You help out or leave. It's an escape, but also an opportunity.

>Not likely on one single acre unless you want little living space per person.

Trailers are easy to obtain, move, and manage.


Please don't just dig a hole. That's very unhealthy and will promote disease. Hire a well trusted local contractor to build you a septic tank.


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Regarding the image, specifically goats,
how do you actually learn to milk a goat?


I'm very interested in these kinds of projects OP, self-sufficient communes creation is the way. You need to obtain means of producing basic necessities, such as food/water, shelter, clothes, hygiene... And also some less basic ones like electricity and internet, since you want to make it cyber.

The problem is money, maybe start a crowdfunding campaign for it. You'll probably find help in anarchists, survivalists and ecologists circles.


Low voltage switching systems are cool. It's not cheap for the proprietary version but should be easy to diy if you have the know how.

Essentially instead of light switches switching mains directly they run 12-24 volts and operate relays back near the breaker that switch mains. So you have buttons instead of switches and it's easily hackable because anything that can switch 12v can control it.




Fertilize your greens with your s-h-i-t

Two birds one stone



grow your food in a shiping container
(although you would need more electricty)


i would love to help with somthing like this. i live near huntsville and have nothing but spare time because im job hunting right now.


Baaaaaad idea. You might get all kind of diseases.


FYI: Storage containers are designed to keep living things out, and thus are generally coated in seriously toxic soykaf. Don't sleep in one.

As for your question, look into how old hippie communes did things. They're rare as hens teeth these days, but there were a lot of them in the 60s/70s that lasted a fair while, and they generally started on cheap uninhabited land.


Waaay too much land, drop the meat, it's too land intensive

Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations:
"The minimum amount of agricultural land necessary for sustainable food security, with a diversified diet similar to those of North America and Western Europe (hence including meat), is 0.5 of a hectare per person. This does not allow for any land degradation such as soil erosion, and it assumes adequate water supplies. Very few populous countries have more than an average of 0.25 of a hectare. It is realistic to suppose that the absolute minimum of arable land to support one person is a mere 0.07 of a hectare–and this assumes a largely vegetarian diet, no land degradation or water shortages, virtually no post-harvest waste, and farmers who know precisely when and how to plant, fertilize, irrigate, etc. [FAO, 1993]"


Because fertilising fields with raw sewage worked so well in China, right?


if you do choose to use pit latrines, OP, I have a recommendation. In Havasupai, the latrines have little boxes of sawdust, and every time you take a soykaf you put a handful of sawdust down there as well. It really controlls the smell and it probably also helps with breaking down the poo.


It doesn't scale well, just like how slash-and-burn farming doesn't scale well. Works well on small scales though.



OP this is kinda my thing. Not in an actual practical sort of way. I've never done this soykaf. But I'm fascinated by it. There's this concept called an 'earthship' you might be interested in. It's pretty intensely eco-friendly including stuff like recycling grey and black water for growing crops and what-not. Use recycled materials for repairs!



I don't think the two are mutually exclusive though. A lot of us feel 'disowned' in our personal lives that's probably what drove most of us onto the wired right? A lot of us like to travel cheap, and I'm sure a lot of us would be down to help create a dope cyb compound.



fuarrrk you've got me excited.... You could also look into micro-scale farming. Someone above mentioned mushrooms. You can also farm something called 'spirulina' in large quantities with a relatively low space requirement. And it's cyb af nutritious green paste...

Another option is aquaponics. You can create a closed system where carp soykaf fertilizes plants:

This soykaf could be like harvest moon OP.

Unfortunately some of this stuff has been ruined by the tech yuppies at companies like facebook. But a lot of lessons can be learned from the Hippies and the DIY movements of the 60's 70's and 80's Check this out:

The truth is you're in an advantageous position. A lot can be done with the land you have and a lot of people have already walked this path before you, thankfully most of them have written guides. You might want to check out the people who consider themselves "homesteaders" as well. That being said You're a hacker OP you don't have to be conventional. I wish you luck. I'll be following this thread closely.


You'd create a new religion and put tour believers un tour new house. You'll make lot of money.


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you could always build a geodesic dome from one of these kits: http://www.econodome.com/


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Or hexayurts for a lot cheaper




One idea:

My landlord cheaped out on her electrician when running new wire, and instead he just ran condiuit all around the outside of the house and punched in through the walls for sockets and the like.

It was super cheap, fairly robust, and honestly is going to be a lot easier to maintain in the future. Not sure how good that'll be against thieves, but the cost and maintenance makes it attractive as an option.


That's a neat idea. I *REALLY* like that it would be more accesible, and you can install new networking / infrastructure stuff. Big storms damaging the conduit, and the idea of a hacker getting in and plugging in a tap is a bit of a turn off though. I'm sure there are ways it could be made safe though.


I think just running the conduit on the inside solves most of those problems. Now you have conduit on the interior walls, but for some people, maybe the /cyb/ vibes are appreciated.

OTOH I don't think maintenance and infrastructure are actually really big concerns for electricity/data. Besides wireless being ubiquitous, I never found just running ethernet to a room that difficult (not in conduit, just through floors and tacked up to the ceiling).



> Big storms damaging the conduit

Don't worry about this lainanon!

Even in hurricane weather EMT holds up well as long as it has been sealed on the joints. You can learn more here:



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If the walls aren't up yet have you considered using something more durable and soundproof than drywall?

Removable panels make future upgrades easier.


whoa, cool stuff



The outside walls have been refortified with 'standard' house wall shit. The interior will have doors to access maintenance and plumbing once I install them.

Thank you all for helping out with advice.


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If you're going to start building a Lain compound I'd suggest keeping the area you live, the area where you work, and the area where your guests live separate and distinct. This is for your own security and convenience.

Easiest way to start this is with basics like a covered outdoor kitchen and an outdoor washroom; you can designate spots for guests to set up a tent or park a vanhaus. A separate wifi network for guests would be generous.


Approximately, where is "fuarrrking Nowhere, Alabama"?


For realsies, can I visit in my van? I'll bring through some network gear to donate and tip out cat6 in exchange for bandwidth and a parking spot.




If you wire the place you get free beers.


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I'm serious m80. I'll buy the cat6 and wire the place out, but I want to do it with you so in the even I leave and the net breaks you will have some idea of where to start at to fix it.

I can't head down there right now right now, but if you can wait about 6 months I'll save up some cash to take a vacation and visit for a week.


You could run a server and a hackerspace.


Take a moment to consider:
* Co-operative land ownership by inhabiting wage earners
* Modular flats: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Stoke_newington_raines_court_1.jpg
* The potential ripple effect this could have


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Ah, I'm in Bessemer, so I'm going to guess maybe an hour drive from here to Cordova(although I've technically never visited that town).

I'm NEET as fuarrrk so probably nothing I could do, but best of luck. When it gets warmer in March, go to the house and hardware stores and get some soil and 2x4's for a garden. I'm throwing down some sweet potatoes granted this drought lets up by then.


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>* Co-operative land ownership by inhabiting wage earners
How about supporting direct resource exchanges between local producers and local service providers?

Wage slavery in 2016 is fuarrrked as anything but a temporary means to gaining necessary resources for production. Selling products or services to wage slaves is fine; trading is better.

Direct trading of resources and services preserves value between involved parties, reduces legal barriers to exchange, and most importantly prevents value from being expropriated by elites.


I think you may have misinterpreted what I was trying to convey.

I'm suggesting getting rid of the static, redundant and obtrusive hierarchy of the landlord-structure (108$/year divided by more than one? This is in everyone's self-interest), which basically would increase the chance for this project of OP's of becoming an organic, living project, growing beyond limits previously not thought imaginable.

This is why I also linked a picture of the modular flat. Because building vertically with modular structures would also increase the amount of potential inhabitants on this initially limited piece of land, which implies a higher level of communal activity, therefore also so much more abundant wealth for the inhabitants to enjoy.

Your suggestion of free exchange between inhabiting producers would indeed be very beneficial for this situation, which basically means I completely agree with you and I don't think we're at odds at all.

What I'm doing here is aiming for a theory of an easily achievable, self-sufficient commune of abundance here, comrade.

Let's brainstorm


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>What I'm doing here is aiming for a theory of an easily achievable, self-sufficient commune of abundance here, comrade.
Okay, I understand. Though I don't think self-sustaining anything is "easy" to pull off. Automation would be the closest thing to "easy" we could create, and that would require a lot of trial and error.

If OP is able to provide a detailed map of the area and the structures being assembled we might be able to brainstorm a bit easier.

Also would be useful to know what utilities are available and at what cost. Most importantly, where does the water come from and how secure is the source?


get a well and a septic tank? lots of people around here didn't have "city water" for a long time so wells were normal and a being connected to any sewer was abnormal.


well water?


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>map of area
Will work on it.
>well water
I can put money into water bill, no worries. This isn't going to be entirely self-sufficient unless we get more money - which I do 'not' have, which is why
>modular flats
Is not going to happen based on the shape of the land and my budget. I'm poor, so we're starting out small.
Plan on it.
>if you can wait about 6 months
lol way more than six months. I won't be there for another year at this rate. I'll let you guys know if I off myself before this can work.
>local producers
No one produces. The main source of income in the soykafhole of Cordova is disability and Social Security. Finding a job is the hard part.


look into mycofiltration (mushroom colonies for filtration) and fungal culture in general, always a good source of protein (as long as not poison)
regarding housing, maybe consider reinforcing/insulating a corrigated metal half-cyllinder garage thing, v cyber friend


A bunch of loners and outcasts wouldn't like a barracks, I'm thinking.

We should stick to trailers and RVs.


How about shipping container capsule barracks? More private than barracks while still achieving similar density. Don't know what the building codes for such a thing would be though, I think a window in each capsule would be necessary which could cause problems with cost.


I dunno, those things are supposed to be full of carcinogens.

Buckminster Fuller had some good ideas on cheap instant housing. Is there anyone you can buy a Fly Eye Dome or a Dymaxion Deployment Unit from?
I don't think you could get a Dymaxion house for love or money, unless you built it yourself. But geodesic domes can be built out of anything, and they're practically indestructible.


>I dunno, those things are supposed to be full of carcinogens.
I looked it up and supposedly the only problems problems are sandblasting and repainting the inside and replacing the floor. It doesn't sound like to much of an issue so long as you don't buy a container that was previously used for hazmat transportation.


You guys know I'm poor right?
Containers would be nice, and it was my first idea, but they are still relatively pricey for good one, and how the fuarrrk am I going to move them?

I'm thinking save for a huge [workshop sized] studio, then make separate rooms within it for people. I'd also like a huge hackerspace workshop on the land as well, but that will be years down the line, should this work out.

The main problem still exists. Money. And there are 0 jobs in the area.


Start a fruit and vegetable garden, sell the produce from a stall.
Grow fibre, craft things from fibre, sell the things.

If your space is large enough, hold a market and charge people to set up a table.

Or hold a doof. Bitches love to doof.


That's a lot of soykaf and highly dangerous at that


Sewerage has to be processed before you can use it as fertiliser.
Growers in the PRC caused an outbreak of salmonella by just pouring raw sewage on their fields.

Have you priced demountables or the tin sheds you assemble yourself?



I'd talk with a lawyer first. You don't want to get sued by some drifter that stays there because he says your house wasn't up to code or whatever.

My next advice would be to only allow people to stay there that you know. Random people will just destroy your fuarrrking house. Don't just open it up to whomever because you WILL only attract the scum of the earth that way.

I think you're a cool guy for thinking this way, but you need to be pragmatic to save yourself a ton of hassle, money and heartache.


Don't make it look too mysterious. Cargo boxes on an empty lot? You'll be getting raided by the police looking for a meth lab every other week. And if they can't find it, they'll supply some and find THAT.
Present a front to the public that they recognise as something they can understand, like a food co-op or something.


Put up a fence and say its a container supply company.


You'll have men in ski masks from the acronyms all over you like bloody sandflies.
Something innocuous and a bit hippie, like pottery or fuarrrking tai chi.
Acronym men are basically exactly as portrayed in William Gibson and William S. Burroughs' books, stupid, paranoid, and reactionary. They will create their own story to fit the facts and then bend the facts to fit their story, to get an arrest. Present them with a mystery, or something interesting, and they will start LARPing, with you as Count Vertigo from Arrow, and them as Jack Bauer.
You want to bore them, bore journalists, bore fat cops, bore local politicians, bore preachers, make their eyes glaze over.
The last thing you want to do is be interesting. Do whatever you want privately, but present an easily classifiable, boring label to The Man.


Ironically, this is good advice for starting a cult.


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>teaching something useless to a group
>not teaching a useless group something

Teach something relevant and practical if you plan on doing this, that way you'll have a way to cover your operation costs.


It's Alabama.. on one hand there are trailer park meth labs in every town, on the other, it's not suspicious at all for people with land to do whatever the fuarrrk they want on it. I had a neighbor who shot gophers in his backyard with a 12 gauge at 5 in the morning.


*Actually it was beavers, they were damming up a creek to one of the local fishing holes iirc.


This is a sweet idea but I have a feeling repairs would catch up sooner or later and not having good means of vetting people sounds like a recipe for trouble.
I'd be willing to drive down from MN on a bike and help out during the summer since I'm free, and a lot of this is pretty familiar to me. However, it seems like a pipe dream with little chance of success. Hope I'm wrong though since it's a great idea, if it went well I have a feeling it might eventually inspire other people to do the same around the country.



This looks really good, until you realise they're looking for donations to build their prototype.

Damn it, I wish someone would just manufacture Buckminster Fuller's Fly Eye Dome or Dymaxion House. I honestly believe that his mental breakdown was the point at which we diverted from the Jetsons future.


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OP here. Update.

I can't get a good map of the land because the land lumber was originally cleared (some lumber used to rebuild the house walls.) And the google earth just shows fuarrrking trees and not the current 'blank land' that now is my square of field. I can assure you , though, that we are now surrounded by other houses. Someone built a double-wide trailer to our north. That is what determined our square now.

Sordid details following at a later time. Really busy lately. Thank you all for the advice.


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Cooperative ownership solves a lot of the problems the hippy communes of the 60s and 70s ran into by making rights and responsibilities explicit.

It works like this: You found a corporation (costs like $10 in Delaware), which owns the land. The corporation has a constitution which sets out things like responsibilities, resolution of disagreements etc. Choose whatever setup you're comfortable with (give yourself permanent veto on any decision, open it up to the masses etc.)

When people join the project, they buy a stake in the corporation. This can be for a nominal fee ($0.01), a hefty fee so that the commune has some capital to play with, different depending on the purchaser's circumstances,or even decided by 'the market'.
Depending on your constitution, this stake can give you membership of the commune without a say in its future (non-voting shares), one-member-one-vote, weighted by amount of money contributed, some kind of log scale to encourage spending without granting too much influence to the richest etc. etc.

The details are up to you, but making all this explicit goes miles towards preventing the kind of disagreements that break up 90% of communes, and furthermore gives you legal protection if & when you need it.

Plus you can wrangle a few tax breaks!


Good idea, thanks(not Op)


Of course, co-operative ownership is the rational alternative to the private tyranny of landlordism. Make a change. Counter-power in action.