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Everyone has taken them, some are socially acceptable and a few are even legal all over the world.

Do you use them? what are you addicted to, perhaps you dose daily?

Also how do they improve your daily life?


Myself for example:


>Nicotine, Xanthines

>Improve my concentration on long drives and helps me to study.


I use them occasionally, depends on my wallet and mental health

> Piracetam, Oxiracetam, Sunifiram

Improves focus a bit, improves memory recall, makes it less of a chore to memorize things

I usually take choline or eat some eggs alongside these

> Theanine + Caffeine

Improves focus & alertness, definitely addicted

> Methylphenidate

I have ADD, but still makes me happy and energized along with letting me focus


I use 200 mg caffeine and 250 mg of ginseng every morning, sometimes I dose twice with caffeine. I plan to buy 60 800 mg caps of piracetam from nootropics depot.

I also understand that diet is a big part of using nootropics. I eat 700-800 calories per day to minimize having to work out. I eat only fruits and vegetables, and drink lots of water. I also eat tiny portions of chicken and rarely steak for protein. My only issue is my brain thinks I'm hungry often so I feel sick even though I really don't need to eat more, so when that happens I eat a tiny bit of brown rice, but not too much.


Piracetam worked fine for me, but the tolerance increases very fast, and this makes it useless.

Has anyone tried noopept?


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I've experimented with a few different stacks now.

>L-Theanine + Caffeine

Pretty good beginner stack, very light. Helps focus.

>Piracetam, Sulbutiamine, CDP Choline

Heavier stack for focus, clarity. Great to study on.

>SEMAX Amidate

Fucking fantastic noot, can actually feel it. I don't use any noot daily, nor would I advise using SEMAX daily. Very strong effects.


Yeah, proper diet and nutrient supplementation seems to be very important, I supplement vitamin D & magnesium and make sure I'm getting things like Choline in my diet. When I don't take these I usually feel more lethargic and my mind feels pretty clouded.

>Semax Amidate
Can you provide some basic information and research about this? I haven't heard of it before, but I'm seeing some articles on pubmed which I'll read later.


I tried Piracetam and didn't notice any significant improvement. I was hoping for memory improvement so it was a disappointment. I have a gram of NSI-189 I got from a friend that I should really try out.


Yes, I've used noopept on and off for about a year now. In the lower recommended doses it's great for memory recall and it does help me focus a little bit, but if I take higher doses short term memory goes to shit and I'm left with some brain fog. A choline source or eating some eggs does help with this, though.

Also, one cool unexpected effect I got from it is that it removes much of my anxiety. It definitely effects alcohol tolerance. If you drink on it you'll feel drunk, but your mind still feels... sharp/sober(ish)? It's not always a good idea to mix the two because you might end up drinking way more. And, totally stupid idea - but if mixed with dissociatives it significantly removes most/all their effects, which I found pretty interesting.


I found if I robotripped using Nyquil (which also has the deliriant doxylamine, which I don't recommend combining with dex) and took piracetam at the same time, the trip was actually more intense. My mind was a bit sharper and less dissociated, but the visuals from the doxy/dex were actually stronger and more pronounced, and the euphoria was increased by a lot. I'm still not sure why, I would expect piracetam to cancel both out.

Dex alone or diph alone are definitely canceled by piracetam, which makes sense because piracetam is a cholinergic and NMDA agonist, while diph is an anticholinergic and dex is an NMDA antagonist.


Does anyone know of substances that potentiate methylphenidate?


Been taking modafinil, I haven't noticed too much in focus and motivation, but damn it gets you out of the bed in the morning and makes thinking clearly easier


Have you (or anyone else reading this) ordered from Modafinilcat? I've heard that they have a very high success rate to the US, but I am still a little skeptical. I always have trouble getting up in the morning and I'd like to try Moda.


Just found out about these, what are they used for?


I'd be interested as well. I can confirm that a typical piracetam/alpha-gpc stack does nothing.



I take aniracetam to improve my overall memory. It enhances focus and concentration, and reduces anxiety and depression.

It's also said to prevent one from developing alzheimer's later in life.




Try Aniracetam. It's much more potent.



You should combine Piracetam with Aniracetam.



Internally I don't really frame what I do as being nootropic oriented, but I do have a number of behaviors to selectively alter my state and functionality based on context and need. This has gone through years of iteration, and I suppose it's worth mentioning.

-Yerba mate
Has methylxanthines. Anti-inflammatory, potentiates and makes easier the process of making energy from adipose stores (good for if you don't have any food).

-Guarana seeds
Lot of caffeine, the other methylxanthines as well. A lot of literature, and personal experience, suggests it contains some other novel stimulant as well. Or a compound that augments the pharmacology of caffeine.

I have a lot, and very little to say about this. It changes you, yet it's difficult to concisely describe how, even though I've spent years at a time consistently high on it. I suppose the cost of insight and finesse in this case is myopia, and with continuous use the end of the road is only madness or apathy. Best if it's only used occasionally. Feels good, greatly improves some aspects of memory both short and long term. Good painkiller, especially for the trigeminal nerve branches. Has a complex spectrum of activity. Flavan-3-ols, theobromine's effect on cAMP, phenylethylamine, salsolinol (unknown if it crosses the BBB with any significance), marginal amounts of anandamide that isn't ultimately detected in plasma, endocannabinoid reuptake inhibitors, [...]. The form it's consumed in matters as well. Roasted "beans" are lower in phenylethylamine and flavan-3-ols than those only fermented. Cacao processed into chocolate liquor by mass has much different proportions of relevant compounds. Whether it's consumed with glucose also makes a difference, although this is more prominent with chocolate liquor. The utility and effect of cacao can't be effectively communicated, it has to be realized. Though I could answer more targeted questions on the slim chance anyone cares to ask.

Improves visuospatial processing and overall mental clarity. Too much can inhibit memory and higher reasoning. When it's all just right it feels as though it frees the mind, or eases some intrinsic limiter. The one some part of you can always feel. Mixing it with ethanol is probably none too grand for the liver, but in the early morning hours when you're neither drunk nor sober, this combination has generated the most fluid and clear mental states I've ever experienced. Very important, ensure that any you buy has absolutely no stems, leaves, nor bark. Only root and rhizome. The former is toxic, especially in proportion to its exposure to light.

Really, the best nootropic is proper diet, nutrition, and exercise. Along with stress reduction, depending.


Could you elaborate on what you mean by "high" on cacao? As someone who does a lot of hard drugs and nootropics I have a hard time seeing how cacao could make someone high but am curious to hear you say more about what that means. Do you have euphoria, intoxication, what?


Difficult to (accurately) describe. I'd liken it to a softer dextroamphetamine, with a very small bit of levoamphetamine. There's a dissociative tint, and at high doses it behaves like ethanol, having a disinhibiting effect such that you might wake up the next day and may think "what did I do", albeit not the amnesiac form. It can afford a sense of hypomania, and superhuman strength.

I wouldn't say it liberates the mind, but it does shift it into a wider and more branching perspective. You become very aware of connection and scale (or the lack thereof), and abstraction becomes the path of least resistance. It's very good for working on anything creative, programming, whatnot. Sometimes puts you in a feel-good haze. At higher doses the content of your visual fields can take on an appearance of extreme contrast, and tends to be tinted slightly orange. Things seem to shine. Awareness (as well as perception) of context, association, implication, and self might or might not change and take a more tangential avenue. Dilation of time sense has occurred, as has merging with my environment.

It's a very conditional high and has a decent number of distinct ways it pans out, which seem only partly dependent on your initial state and what happens afterwards. Though it could be my ability to correlate just isn't fine grained or insightful enough for an accurate prediction, but this seems unlikely given that the content of any given sample can vary greatly. As I said above though, it's dualistic both in the moment and over time, and comes at an exponential cost. It's been a lot of things for me, a lot of times, and I can't put both meaningfully and concisely represent "how it is" at its core. It certainly shifts and amplifies something, but I can't discern precisely what, so on a high level it's just dependent on the user's state at the time, and what they do with it. It does with, more than it does to. That might be the best description of any real underlying constants of its activity.

If you do plan to try it, I'd advise taking it cautiously and seriously. There is a comedown (more or less identical to amphetamine, with a bit of alcohol hangover), and overdose feels terrible.


Also, it's very effective at inhibiting pain perception. Whatever the means for that might be. This is why I tried it initially. I found some literature showing it was effective at reducing inflammation and substance P levels in the trigeminal nerve root, in models of neuropathic pain. A lot of why I stuck with it for around two years straight, though I was otherwise descending down a rabbit hole regardless.

Stopped using it for two years. Ultimately I saw it was a tool I should have just learned to use properly instead of throwing away. I only use it occasionally at this point, though I won't think too much of eating a chocolate bar or whatever else.


How would you ingest it, and what amount would you ingest to get these effects?


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Without trying to control for individual physiology, I would suggest consuming at least 5-6 oz of something containing >=50% cacao. Ideally this thing is also not biased towards cocoa butter nor solids (ie in the chocolate liquor form), though most of the psychoactive compounds originate in the solids.

You could also get some cacao nibs (fermented and crushed up seeds), though they're often roasted which destroys some of the phenylethylamine. "Raw" powder, ie powdered seeds that haven't been dutch processed or alkalized, also works, though I don't really prefer it, as it can have an addling effect.

All of the above have different functional characteristics. The chips have a more uniform distribution and concentration of anything psychoactive, and it's absorbed differently (the presence of glucose matters as well). The nibs are more apt to have a balance of phenylethylamine and some of its more novel condensates, because they're made by bacteria. To my knowledge, the raw powder just sits there and to a point will generate phenylethylamine proportional to its age. Flavanol content is relatively fixed, R-salsolinol varies though it's not even known whether it crosses the blood brain barrier, which might well be a good thing (dried bananas are high in this as well), thebromine etc remain the same. I think the bacteria are probably breaking down the fats for the most part, when it comes to the powder.

I'd recommend some high quality chocolate chips as a slight first, and the nibs otherwise. Find the nibs at a local coop or whatever though, sold in bulk they're substantially cheaper than those "mayan superfood" bags of them. For chips I'd recommend images related. I have problems with soy, but as far as I'm concerned when you have cocoa butter available as an emulsifier, soy lecithin has no place in chocolate. It's just using something dirt cheap to cut corners with everyone else, unless you're specifically engineering for a certain texture and crumbling characteristic.


>For chips I'd recommend images related.
To clarify, they're recommended because they use chocolate liquor as a base, which I would say is a decent heuristic to judge how the components of the product were processed and sourced, which indicates its content. It's possible to have a high quality chocolate using both an external emulsifier and chocolate liquor, but if done correctly it's usually unnecessary. Chocolate liquor is more or less a creamy paste, it sticks together and to itself fairly well.


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I received a batch of Oxiracetam+CDP-Choline today, can't wait to test it out. My other experiences are piracetam, sulbutiamine, noopept, bacopa, rhodiola, DMAE, 5-HTP, l-theanine, etc.

Good stuff all around, just be sure to research every substance and start out with low doses to test tolerance. And also - if you are drugged out of your mind, drink alcohol regularly and eat shitty food, you'd be better off taking care of that first, nootropics are not going to miraculously help you with any of those. And sleep a lot, 7-9 hours daily.


My memory is fucked, can't concentrate worth shit, and have some depression and lack of drive. All I take occasionally is St. John's Wort but I don't feel like that does jack shit unless I take a lot of it.

I looked into some nootropics here but everything online looks expensive and I have no idea where to start.

How should I start?


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Where do you live? UK or the States? Or somewhere else? UK noot vendors are going to have a hard time under the new psychoactive substances act, but a temporary pro of this situation is that it's 40-50% cheaper to buy bulk stuff. For the US your best bet is either powdercity.com or nootriment.com

Generally speaking: 5-HTP and l-theanine for blues and depression. If you drink alcohol - stop. If you jack off frequently - don't do it as frequently. Don't do drugs other than noots. See my post above, the one with the Herzog poster. Bacopa and rhodiola both helped me concentrate and stay awake for long periods of time, noopept (with a good source of choline, don't buy soy lecithin) helped with concentration, memory and creativity, but I built a tolerance relatively fast (~4 weeks). Modafinil/adrafinil for those singular instances where you just NEED to be at your intellectual peak. Caffeine anhydrous plus l-theanine is also worth looking into, the prices are really low and unless you violate the 400mg daily dose you should be good. No jitters or anything.

Ask away if you need advice.


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I took 500mg and it was fun. I took one today for the first time and they take a while to kick in. I was productive and really talkative at work today and i kept pitching ideas to my coworkers. I didn't get distracted, Everything i did was like tunnel vision to me.

It helped me organize my thoughts, my thoughts were like files in a file system and i had a task manager for each thought. I gave an equal amount of time for each task and i got all my tasks done.

I'm gonna up the dosage to 1000mg and see how well i do.


If you are actually clinically depressed no "nootropic" or similar will have any beneficial effect remotely close to an antidepressant and therapy. Get yourself up to baseline before trying to push beyond that.

I speak from several years of experience unsuccessfully trying to self-medicate my depression with nootropes. It doesn't work and will make you more depressed because you can pour virtually unlimited time and energy into this project that has a vanishingly low probability of success.

Alternatively, try NSI-189. Should help with memory as well. This is expensive and also not really legal (but not on the consumer end; all sales of NSI-189 are patent violations).


echoing this. I took quite a few nootropics while depressed, they only slightly had the intended while they made my anxiety much worse. The only noot I'd say was helpful while depressed was l-theanine, it reduced my anxiety some.

Once I fixed my life up and was no longer depressed, things like piracetam and oxiracetam were much more effective at improving my memory and focus.


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Depression is not some mystical illness that some chosen members of our society suffer from. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain and while I agree that self-medication is unwise, I should also underline that not every "depressed" person suffers from clinical depression. So unless you KNOW you have depression, I see no reason to not try 5-HTP or l-theanine.


>Depression is not some mystical illness
And yet in the very next sentence:
>It's a chemical imbalance in the brain
Which is sufficiently vague to imply you, and we for that matter, don't actually understand what makes us be and become what we are.

The brain overall is not a fixed state machine. Beyond functionally crippling sgates that can lead to seizures, cardiac and respiratory depression, or cell apoptosis, there is no "balance". There's just a set of intertwined feedback loops that will typically fix a person to a certain range, or spectrum of states, of which they'll likely end up clustering in certain areas via the patterns in their environment and their behaviors.

Variants of the phrase "chemical imbalance" has been used to control people and justify not knowing what you're actually dealing with, for centuries. Its former names have been imbalance of the chakras. Imbalance of the humors. Bad spirits. It's all the same. Modern neurology (but lets be real, this behavior is pretty well reserved for psychiatry) just has the means for slightly more low level descriptors. But the approach is the roughly the same. The models are no more mechanistic, certainly not much more "evidence based", and there is no higher understanding.

Make no mistake, when someone assesses you and then tells you "your issues are a chemical imbalance" they're not simplifying for the layman, they genuinely don't understand what they're doing and the don't actually know anything about how you work. Medication and seeking diagnosis are both lifestyle choices, and should be viewed as such. And since psychiatry gets to clutter up what should be an attempt at resolving objective laws, with faith and their own personal philosophies, I suppose I'll do the same. As someone with years of depression behind them, as far as I'm concerned if you're depressed, chances are you ought to be. I never bothered with medication, but the standard lines "it'll get ya back on your feet so you can discover, address, and reconcile your real problems!" "It's a chemical imbalance. You were born broken and you're gonna stay broken, so here are your options. If that doesn't work we'll keep throwing shit at the wall until a given clump seems to stick "well enough", then you're set! Okay, try this and come back in two months." are nonsense that set people back years. People that might need real, meaningful help.

Seen it once. Seen it ten times. Seen it twenty times, and I'll see it again. That phrase alone communicates more about human history and the nature of our species than any vague model of chemical imbalance ever could.



500mg of? I was stacking oxyracetam/AlphaGPC Junior year of HS.
What's yo stack?


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>The models are no more mechanistic, certainly not much more "evidence based", and there is no higher understanding.

I get the scepticism, I'm no fan of modern psychiatry, either (but not to the extent of Thomas Szasz or something), but don't tell me that our modern understanding of the brain is more or less the same as it was a thousand years ago, as you seem to be implying with that chakra analogy. Recent developments have shown that anti-depressants frequently don't work, I'm not trying to deny that. But perhaps you're viewing the whole predicament through the lens of your personal experiences and not assessing it critically enough.


>but don't tell me that our modern understanding of the brain is more or less the same as it was a thousand years ago
It's not skepticism, the actuality is as glaringly obvious as it was 1000 years ago. We've long had the means to observe realize on some level a functionally accurate framework of how things actually are, can be, and become. The specifics ideally expand this spectrum, but unfortunately that's not how it works. Planck said something like "Scientific progress is a series of funerals", and he wasn't talking about the death of prevailing theories. The human species is likely composed of relatively fixed constants, which is why we suffer patterns of repeating poor outcomes over time.

It's not ultimately really about the brain, and it's not really about how extensive the change appears in contrast to our ideas about the underlying nature of reality. Whether it's a witch doctor telling you the bark of a tree, and a flowering velvet vine would rid you of your bad spirits, someone telling you not to masturbate because you'll unbalance your humors, or some psychiatrist rattling off how this partial agonist will reduce the flow and activity of dopamine in your mesolimbic pathway which is supported by research showing lower baseline levels of urinary salsolinol, phenylethylamine metabolites, and the similarity of your hallucinations to those generated by excessive DAT / TAAR1 mediated dopamine "unbalance" (ie stimulant psychosis), it's the same general deal. It's a myopic attitude that treats a small sliver of the bigger picture as though it's good enough and the whole thing, despite having the means to know better. So you throw 'em on a medication to "make it work right", say you did your best, you did what your training said was right, and you call it a day.

You cannot treat "mental illness" (or whatever the given culture is calling it at the time) as a mechanical failure without also acknowledging that the person themselves IS that very machine. The line between psychological and physiological is ultimately unnecessarily blurred when there are decent heuristics to view them properly. I think bipolar and its subsets are probably the worst offense. Eg Histamine is a modulatory neurotransmitter, yet are food allergy tests ever performed? Is diet ever evaluated? Are sources of deep psychological or emotional conflict ever evaluated? How about teaching people to identify and control for triggers? Rarely. Just thrown em' on a mood stabilizer. Hopefully you even get them to walk around saying "my bipolar" and "my meds", no better outcome than its integration into one's sense of identity. This one gets to me the most, because after addressing my own food allergies such that my mast cells weren't chronically dumping out histamine everywhere and my blood barrier permeability improved such that neutrophils et al weren't entering the brain etc, well golly gosh my lifelong panic attacks, mixed states, and episodes of hypomania became manageable and eventually faded in their frequency. I was able to unravel my fucked up psyche enough to identify many real issues.


Anyway, whatever. There's a lot to be said here and I'm not in a mood to coherently and concisely convey the parts of the framework that matter. I will say I think psychiatry nets out as delusional quackery and pretending one understands what they're doing and the causative agents at play for a given individual. It's done iteratively, assembly-line style. Cognitive behavioral therapy is likely the primary future of the field if corporate interest gets its tendrils out of it. Knowledge is a framework of relative truths wherein all elements are inherently uncertain and therefore weighted by probability while controlling for known and known unknown sources of potential error. Along with honest heuristics guiding one's sense of value, you can hopefully end up with outcomes that are perpetually garbage. Psychiatry does this very poorly, because to be done properly demands an epistemologically sound foundation and rational mind, so people with shitty attitudes cluster in the field and stick out pretty readily. A certain type of intelligence is necessary to bridge the top down approach with the low level fundamentals, then apply the relevant principles, and most people just don't have it.

I don't think it's salvageable, maybe the field will morph over time. At present they'd be better to just piss off and go back to debating whether in schizophrenia the sensory inputs are altered before processing, if they're misprocessed, or neither. Meanwhile, people who actually want to understand the machinery of the mind will do all the real work. This post is more noise than signal, I'm just so sick of people.


>you can hopefully end up with outcomes that are perpetually garbage.
aren't* perpetually.
Or are, depending on who you are.


You very clearly have little to no idea what you're talking about. Read even a basic psychopathology textbook (mine is attached on >>>f/297 ). Congratulations on learning some convincing-sounding technobabble but you are literally on the same tier as L. Ron Hubbard in this screed.

We can scan the occipital lobe and reconstruct images from it. We know vastly more about human cognition and the human brain than we did a thousand years ago, but you can't please people like this. Somehow this lainon figured out what lifestyle changes could best manage his mood imbalance (from whom, exactly? a researching psychologist) and now knows, as surely as his own name, the deep problems in psychology.

It's not shocking that it takes practitioners time to adopt new research. Most practitioners are overextended because they go into the field out of a desire to help people, and because modern treatments are actually generally successful, they all think they can do that best by taking on as many patients as possible. Obviously this interferes with their ability to stay current in research, but this is no different from literally any other profession. You could hire an older contractor who would probably build a solid house, but it wouldn't be the same as a younger contractor's. There are still tons of nutritionists who think that eating fat makes you fat. Knowledge can only diffuse so fast and there is an adoption curve to literally everything. Not everyone can be an early adopter.

>There's just a set of intertwined feedback loops that will typically fix a person to a certain range, or spectrum of states, of which they'll likely end up clustering in certain areas via the patterns in their environment and their behaviors.

The brain is a fully general computing environment. The concept of mental health is based on the degree to which some factor interferes with a patient's life, not on anything necessarily objective, because people will have different baselines and coping abilities. So while there isn't a strict "imbalance" in the same sense of say seizures in depression, there *is* a mutually reinforcing system of negative feedback loops. Since this is undesirable, we call it an "imbalance," even though as you point out, the system is actually stable (to a degree, because if an organism is induced to suicide from negative cognitive patterns, their brain certainly isn't functional). Because souls aren't real, the negative cognitions, attributional styles, and similar are in fact results of neural biochemistry. Altering that biochemistry won't change cognitions directly, but it will alter the feedback loops, increase and decrease the relative probability of certain cognitions or attributions, and in doing so stop the negative feedback loop and correcting the "imbalance."

The reason why psychopharmecuticals exist at all is because psychologists have, literally since Skinner, acknowledged that the mind is the brain, psychology is physiological, etc.. Does this mean psychologists should all be dieticians? I'm sure you'd say yes, but really that just proves my point.

I'm glad you managed to address your own issues, but that doesn't give you any strong domain expertise in this area.


>You very clearly have little to no idea what you're talking about.
"I don't understand what someone is saying, therefore they must not know what they're talking about. Even though I can't actually explain why they're incorrect, and attempting to will only loop back to show I didn't actually understand. It will take me a while to catch on to that we're actually having two different conversations, together."

>We can scan the occipital lobe and reconstruct images from it.

Lainon, I know. I already know. I know about the formalized discovery of heuristics. I know about the advent of different types of fMRI. I know about the work being done on information decoding and extraction. I know about the push for SPECT-based diagnosis in psychiatry. I know about the discovery of different types of memory. I know the historical context of in a low level objective sense, what people were postulating cognition and consciousness were. I know about transcranial magnetic stimulation, direct current stimulation, and the history that preceded them. I know. Do you get it yet? I know. I know a bit about the course of history, I know the present isn't the same as the past. That isn't what this conversation is primarily about. Stop being dense, stop playing the "I bet I know more~" angle, and you might catch up to where I started.

>(from whom, exactly? a researching psychologist)

From myself, and iterating over time. The same as any other evaluation or self discovery.

>It's not shocking that it takes practitioners time to adopt new research.

Which would be an understandable position, and well grounded risk assessment if two things were true:
-It was "new research".
-What they were already doing worked (well).
Unfortunately, neither of these are the case. Without the means to think a thought, a mind will not think it, and again, some subset of the population has always had the means. This is readily obvious whether you look back on the dynamics that cluster throughout history, or you look at specifics pf given cultures and eras. It remains, and our "new" modern prevailing ontological stances are not really so new at all, at their functional core.



>Most practitioners are overextended because they go into the field out of a desire to help people

Many do, many don't. Yes, having the opinion that "most" have their heart primarily in the right place is a warm fuzzy feel-good take on the world, it feels nice that everyone is just trying their best but it's a big hazy complex world out there where things are rarely so simple or so ideal. Neither of us know every practitioner, so we have to operate on what we think about people and what we think we've seen. Be aware of this.

>modern treatments are actually generally successful

That's not what a large majority of large scale reviews have concluded. Depression sticks out in particular with most SSRI / SSNRI drugs barely more effective than placebo over time. Yes, they certainly do something, but don't get rid of your depression like magic. Because the basis of mindset and high level mood and experience are multifaceted.

"I don't think it's salvageable. Humans can't handle it."
And this hasn't changed. Maybe you can use SPECT and bombard patient's brains with gamma rays to figure out where the crazy might be coming from modern day. Gosh, what an improvement in diagnosis and treatment. Too bad it doesn't compensate for philosophically deficiency.

>Obviously this interferes with their ability to stay current in research

Not new research, not new ideas, and not even that profound an insight. Psychiatry has been around for quite a while, what does that tell you?

>There are still tons of nutritionists who think that eating fat makes you fat.

>Knowledge can only diffuse so fast and there is an adoption curve to literally everything.
State the obvious. This isn't helping your narrative about psychiatry, if anything you're indirectly agreeing me while tacking on "but they try their best". Sometimes your best is still pathetically subpar. I call this "incompetence".
>The brain is a fully general computing environment.
The brain was the first fully general computing environment. If we were something else, that could perform tasks that are outside of our present logic and faculty for thought, or had certain states be more standard, that would be the "fully general". I'd be apt to describe it differently. Defining what kind of machine and computation environment the brain ought to be considered is generally as fruitless as arguing if it's analog or digital.

For example, some of the filtering and mixing stages in visual processing, excluding the role of pyramidal cells in complex object recognition after corticogenesis, are actually very simple and likely fixed function stages held to very tight chemical tolerances. Aberrations in these tolerances whether from drugs, epinephrine, or fatigue, tend to reveal form constants or artifacts of intermediate stages normally hidden away. You can watch clusters of neurons switch their inputs on and off when exposed to rotating gradients, then hold them when the gradient is stable. Famous experiments have shown that if vertical lines are filtered out with goggles in an animal, since birth, when they're taken off they're largely unaware of hard vertical shapes. Visual processing is a small part of the brain's functions, but it's probably the best example of how "fully general" the whole really is, and what meaning that actually has relative to computation generally.



>The concept of mental health is based on the degree to which some factor interferes with a patient's life, not on anything necessarily objective

Sorry to be harsh, but you're either stupid or very disingenuous. Sure you could say that, if you ignore most of history except for the last 5-10 years when that shift of definition started to really come around.

"Mental illness" has mostly been relative to cultural perception, with what the individual thinks or truly desires for themselves a distant second if present at all. This forms coercive if not outright forceful feedback loops. Just look at how many "ADHD" kids got thrown on methylphenidate when they were 5. Or bipolar kids on lithium when they were 10. It happens more than I imagine you'd like to admit.

>increase and decrease the relative probability of certain cognitions or attributions

You're repeating what I've already said as though you're telling me something novel. It's all about what the actual underlying mechanics of a problem are, the conditions for their creation, how you're able to interface with it, and what the ideal outcome is over time.
>The reason why psychopharmecuticals exist at all
Something akin to "psychopharmaceuticals" would exist with or without psychology as a formalized field of study. It already had for thousands of years.

Dualism etc is irrelevant. My point wasn't about the human species widely coming to acknowledge the old ideas preceding even the ancient Greeks around "man as machine", and the notion of objective substrate we both measure and are part of. It's not about about putting it all into a coherent framework. It's much more simple than that. It's acknowledging the implication of the obvious, that which needs no training and no education.

People are able to control their emotions. People are able to force emotional states. People are able to organize ideas mentally into trees to control the structure the data will be stored in. People are able to suppress memory, strip associative links allowing the access of memories, and even delete them outright. People are able to suppress their emotions. People are able to be in multiple distinct emotional states at once. People are able to practice deliberate self delusion, create false memories, and generally distance themselves from reality. This eventually affects their behavior and cognition. People devise mental systems to cope with issues they either cannot escape, or can't mentally handle. When people suppress emotions over time, they're apt to gradually polarize into a given set of states, or, snap. Why snap? Why, and how, does any of that happen? The obvious hypothesis is that being of finite mind and finite time, the involved machinery tends to drift into certain ranges the more it's used for a given task, or set to a given state. These patterns form and define the overall spectrum of awareness and possible states a person may occupy at a given moment relative to a certain set of external stimuli, which naturally may potentiate further drift.

Ah, but no. That's too complicated. Ought to just figure out the macro presentation of how you're fucked up and use that as a heuristic to drug you properly instead of addressing the actual matter... All the while, masquerading personal philosophy and opinion as a science. Grand, and par for the course.


>acknowledged that the mind is the brain, psychology is physiological,
There is no honest acknowledgement about the interplay between the extrinsic and intrinsic. State of the mind relative to its own activity relative to its environment. It does not functionally come through in practice.

>Does this mean psychologists should all be dieticians?

Depends what it is to "be" a "x". Which is arbitrary, conditional, and not worth discussing.
Should people expand their knowledge beyond what they're told to think, have curiosity in the nature of their field, and incorporate any relevant elements into their overall understanding of what they're doing at any given instant, and the universe they live in? Yes. That's their job. And that's how you do it right.

I don't know what kind of meds you're on, or your history, but you'd better get your biases in check or think a bit harder. So you don't think psychiatrists should need to bother themselves with the BBB or histamine's role as a neurotransmitter. What's next, they don't need to know about peripheral 5-HT's role in digestion?

>I'm glad you managed to address your own issues,

Bear in mind, addressing is not necessarily eliminating (life has no restarts anyway). It is possible for clusters of issues to, while not being directly solvable (eg chronic pain, certain physiological biases), to have many of their negative effects become controllable and reconcilable merely by unraveling their ancillary aspects and delineating the core elements at work.

>but that doesn't give you any strong domain expertise in this area.

I'd say it does, given I'm the only one lastingly fixing problems without marked side effects or reliance on the pharmaceutical industry. Granted, I haven't had to work with other people or get them to be honest and realistically address their own shit while dealing with the overhead of knowing they came there for a bandaid fix, or for "help", or they just want to keep living the way they already are and not change anything but feel good while doing it, or knowing there isn't TIME to get them to fix their shit before they might go and jump off a bridge or do something truly stupid while manic, or assault their neighbor because he's up 24/7 banging on the wall and yelling while aliens beam thoughts into your head through an obelisk that was built in an interdimensional space constructed in your attic (to hide it from you) before houses even existed, which then travels through the wiring and comes out through the electrical outlets because your bed springs are actually coils like that because they're meant to receive signals and generate a magnetic field to tamper with you in your sleep[...].

Yes, they have a job that can be difficult. No, that doesn't make it acceptable to do it poorly. If you get into medicine in any form, you'd better be in it deep, and you'd better be in it to be better than good. The course of a person's life is at stake. You can shape whether they learn to live with themselves and live a meaningful life, or they end up a dopey husk shuffling along at 60 and call it "better than nothin', good enough".


I'm going to respond to one thing per rant you post from now on as a gating mechanism; there are many more problems, but you don't get to write walls of text and pretend like that makes you win the argument. This is off-topic for this thread anyway and I'm not going to see a thread on a topic I care about derailed. You're still wrong and dangerously so.


People are able to control their emotions. People are able to force emotional states. People are able to organize ideas mentally into trees to control the structure the data will be stored in. People are able to suppress memory, strip associative links allowing the access of memories, and even delete them outright. People are able to suppress their emotions. People are able to be in multiple distinct emotional states at once. People are able to practice deliberate self delusion, create false memories, and generally distance themselves from reality.

This is entirely false and indicates to me why you have the opinions you do; having non-disordered mood deviations that can be treated so trivially (diet and what, "deleting" memories?) will make you think that all psychopathology is that trivial, but obviously this isn't the case for the vast majority of people struggling with mental illness.

I really hope you can learn some empathy.


>This is entirely false.
From your perspective, which is entirely unsupported. As time goes on, scientific endeavor only continues to back and unravel the basis of the things I've experienced as true for years. Likely because my own model of objective reality covers more aspects than your own, and manages to do so with a degree of depth and accuracy because these are things I've actually done, actually had to deal with, and actually have to live with.

Your understanding of what you're reading isn't accurate to the source, either. Not sure if that's my fault or not. eg:
>and what, "deleting" memories?
Learn context.

At the end of the day, science says nothing about high level meaning or implication, it only provides the hard data. It's up to people to understand the nature and accuracy of those measures, as well as their meaning. Psychiatry, in whatever limited scope it operates, is often correct about the underlying data, or at last the parts the greater field wants to admit is relevant. Where they're incorrect is about what that data means, and how you can expect a given human to work. This cripples their understanding of a given mode of function, as well as the means to alter that function. It's like giving someone a vasodilator to fix their high blood pressure, utterly stupid and ignores what is really generating the core problem.

>people struggling with mental illness.

Humans are machines. Illness or non-illness are arbitrary definitions for the state of a given system. Either you, or those around you, like how "it" works, or they don't. It's that simple. ie, being told you're ill is not necessarily being ill. Calling yourself ill is not necessarily truly understanding the nature of the illness. The full spectrum, of the illness.

Whatever. Psychiatry can crudely screw people over all it likes. I'd be satisfied with their subpar outcomes if the field, and the population at large, saw medication as a lifestyle choice. That's all I want. An attempt at accuracy and realistic thinking.

You don't have anything substantial or meaningful to say, so while I'll likely notice if you ever responded, eventually, as far as I'm concerned the conversation is probably over. Stop behaving like such a broken victim, and you might just realize you've been more self limiting than you thought. Humans are of finite mind, and finite potential. Not everything can be changed the way you might want, as readily as you might want, as easily, as you might want. But there's clearly far more to be done than you know. Gotta shake the comfort of delusion and false certainty, search and define how it all actually can be. I've been a lot of people, and you can too.


To bring this thread back on topic...

Experiences with sunifiram anyone? I've been using it on and off and experimenting with tolerances and dosage. I find that 5mg is a good dose, feels slightly stimulating while my head is clearer, less brain fog. 15mg feels intoxicating; anything beyond that is too risky. Also a tolerance builds after 3 days of use; it seems to take about a week to cycle.

FWIW, sunifiram is very new and lacks research; people have harmed themselves with it before. But I'm curious to know if other lains have tried it.


I've never tried any other nootropics, but modafinil was very helpful for me when I took it. It quickly got me up and awake, and kept me focus without being overstimulated.
I took it regularly for years though and it lost its effectiveness.

It has a distinct taste and smell to it, and it will make your urine have the same smell. It will dry out your mouth. It also made urinating a bit difficult, and helped curb my appetite.

If I could get another script for it I'd probably go back on it.


Have heard from AFK friends that they work very well.


Today my order of nootropics came in, I bought 100G of piracetam, 250g of 30% extract Lion's mane, choline, and fish oil.

I drank a cup of lion's tame mixed with hot water (I heard this make it more potent) and down 2 fish oils with a cup of a mixture of piracetam and choline.

The Lion's tame smelled like the ramen seasoning, and tasted a bit like tea, nothing too foul, but the piracetam/choline tasted bitter, in a very unpleasant way.

Altogether they made me feel at first a bit more alert and cognitive, but eventually caused me to feel quite drowsy. Has anyone else also felt drowsy after taking these nootropics?


Just a minor recommendation, oxiracetam is very similar to piracetam, but is also a mild stimulant and actually tastes sweet. It's a bit more expensive though.

As for the drowsiness, I haven't tried lion's mane. But when I take a glutaminergic drug (*racetams, sunifiram and the like) I tend to feel a bit drowsy after the peak effect of the chemical, usually towards the end of its half-life. The drowsiness usually passes after an hour or so.


Using methylphenidate to improve my concentration like 10mg per 6 hours or so works fine :)


Same, except I use concerta. One dose covers most of the day nicely


For the hell of it, I might as well update this.

Recently I've come to believe I might have been wrong about the relationship between the fermentation stage and phenylethylamine content, it likely is not synthesized solely by bacteria nor the cacao itself. Rather it's generated from trace amines via exposure to heat during processing (fermentation heaps included), then metabolic byproducts of bacteria react with it leading to the formation of relatively novel condensates, which are psychoactive as well.

I ate a small amount of kava today, and a low number of chocolate chips (made from chocolate liquor, thus heated). Then I consumed 800mg of phenylethylamine, and I'm now feeling some pretty terrible things. Poor capacity to connect thoughts, keep things in memory, maintain awareness of context. Head hurts, etc. Resembles a cacao overdose, minus the low blood pressure. This suggests I've greatly underestimated both the amount and role of phenylethylamine in the experience of processed chocolate. The nibs and powder are likely higher in the condensates, which explains the variance in their behavior and why the chips, with glucose, are a bit more "feel good" and potentially addling. Some things still remain to be sorted out though (beyond heuristic guided guesswork about theobromine and flavan-3-ols), as 800mg of phenylethylamine and kava, on their own, do not cause this. Luckily it's fading fast.

Not quite the papers in memory I've based this on, but they go into similar areas.


Things became okay ~3 hours ago. This suggests what you'd assume is likely correct, the main aspects of cacao overdose are not due to phenylethylamine (probably theobromine and vasodilation), as it lasts much longer and leaves you feeling mentally burnt. The high also lasts at least 8 hours in a way that doesn't resemble the residuals of pure phenylethylamine. Perhaps something synergistic, but more likely can be explained by theobromine alone.

Seems unlikely anyone cares about this, or even believes it. Maybe it's unique only to a certain physiology, or a subset of the general population. I don't know, but if approached mechanistically, with a mind for formalized engineering and standardization (and therefore amelioration of unwanted side effects), you can't imagine what would become readily accessible. Walk 45 miles through subzero temperatures without food or water, survive the next two days outside. Potentiate rapid learning and enhanced recall, better performance for both divergent and convergent reasoning, increase in tangential connections and lateral thinking with greater granularity. Superhuman strength, decreased awareness of pain, absence of anxiety.

As I said, it simultaneously comes at a significant cost that quickly becomes almost exponential over time before plateauing in a state of dysfunction. And mostly it doesn't afford anything that strictly cannot readily come about, or be forced otherwise. My memory is pretty decent to begin with, I can go in a building only once and be able to mentally walk through it for years afterwards without having to interpolate much lost details. Revisiting confirms accuracy. But it somehow... shifts how memory works, is accessed, is processed, and is ultimately stored. This can be good for problem solving, programming, etc. Cripples mathematical calculation, and arithmetic though. It can be very addictive, especially if using it to avoid something (eg chronic pain).

I've stopped "using" it almost entirely, but I just can't let it go. This is something that must be unraveled and understood in intimate detail. Ranting about cacao has put some things in order in the mind. Theobromine relative to cAMP must be understood better, and by region. It's not a nootropic by most definitions, but it is a useful tool. Its history with the Maya makes it ever more curious. Whether it results in net improvement is a matter of opinion and relative to the desired outcome for a given spectrum of tasks.


I just took some lion's mane, fish oil, and choline

I notice that when I take lion's mane I get a bit of a weird feeling inside my head, almost like a pressure but not quiet, it actually feels like my brain is sort of growing or something, feels kind of cool to be frank

anyone with similar experiences? I am quite new to nootropics, but I can already say that this is a much healthier habit than the previous drugs I was taking... at least now I'm doing huge quanities of choline and lion's mane and fish oil rather than pcp analogs haha


Honestly, I get some of the same feelings from methylphenidate. Like I'm really good at what I do, my memory and knowledge make me super-intelligent, and I'm %300 improved physically -- of course these aren't actually the case, that's just mild stimulant-induced mania. I think I can assume it's common to drugs in the phenethylamine class in general.

After reading your posts I think I'm going to test cacao. Do you know of any chocolate chip substitutes that contain no cacao, that I could use for a control? I'd like to do a test similar to gwern.net 's nootropic experiments, and the main active ingredient seems to be phenethylamine.


Why am I still awake... As if my sleep won't just drift back.
I may have mentioned above that I'd liken the effects to dextroamphetamine, with a very slight levoamphetamine tint. But that's just a rough comparison, there's some number of other somethings going on too. My experience with methylphenidate years ago (a generic, though I don't recall which), was apt to make me feel nauseous and disoriented, even at low doses. Dextroamphetamine occasionally caused me to see swirling grainy rainbow waves on monochromatic (mainly white) surfaces, this is an effect thus far unique to it (or me at that time). Probably related to visual snow. Was pretty neat, also enhanced spatial calculations related to reflections and such. Like you said, the more basic phenylethylamine based stimulants seem like they tend to loosely share some core elements with each other, and their base.

The pharmacology of cacao appears fairly complex, and I've scarcely begun to try to account for cross system aspects. Elevation of 5-HT (as an indirect downstream product), and the typical hippocampal neurogenesis, increased synapse length, dendritic spine density, etc that results has also been observed in rats. Probably as much or more from the flavanoids though. As yet I've been unable to find reliable evidence that R-salsolinol crosses the BBB, there's a lot of contradiction and a lot of unreliable methodologies present in the literature. It's consistent that serum levels are elevated after dietary intake however. Anandamide and possible endocannabinoid reuptake inhibitors likely don't make it to the brain, either.

Anyway, in the context of controlled trials I'd probably try the chocolate chip avenue first. Composed of many beans and therefore better controls for the possibility of batch-based or individual seed differences. Either way nibs / whole beans are definitely worth testing as well, and they really are quite a bit different. Chocolate liquor is "heavier". I'd in no way suggest cacao as something to be taken daily, either.

>Do you know of any chocolate chip substitutes that contain no cacao, that I could use for a control?

Carob comes to mind. I can't say much about if it's functionally inert though.


What would you recommend for first time usages?

i have been reading about noopept,Pramiracetam,modafinil,l-theanine.



I would recommend removing noopept from that stack because ive heard very mixed things about it, like it fucking up some peoples memories and what not. Also, modafinil shouldn't be a daily thing, but rather one you do when you need to be at your best. You might also want to toss in a choline supplement in there, Alpha-GPC is usually pretty good for that. Maybe add another racetam in there, like piracetam or oxiracetam, since their effects are very synergistic when take together. BTW this is not me telling you exactly what it should be since everyone has different goals with their stacks, and ultimately you should always do a load of research by yourself before choosing any stack. I reccomend longecity and /r/nootropics for more info if you weren't aware of those sites.

With my suggestions your stack would now look more like:

piracetam, pramiracetam, (modafinil on occasion), l-theanine, Alpha-GPC

Something else to look out for in terms of noots is lion's mane (something that has seriously been of interest to me because it apparently stimulates nerve growth factor), and if you decide to try it, do it in combination with Acetyl-L-carnitine, since it supposedly boosts the NGF by 100


Thanks alot, yea i'll just have to read and try various doses of it :)


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Tried phenibut for the first time today, mixed with some anhydrous caffeine. I feel fucking fantastic, the music sounds like heavenly Drumpfets, I'm the happiest I've been in MONTHS. Took a gram, will comply with all the warnings about not abusing the substance, I don't want to become dependent.

Listening to this, btw, highly recommended for fans of early-to-mid period of PSX soundtracks/deep house fans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE5jwxIcq48


I'm using Phenylpiracetam. Minimum side-effects and feels so good, so far.


Just found some NSI-189, gonna try to do a more legit trial this time


Phenibut does nothing for me.

Once I only slept 2 hours and felt refreshed afterwards; once I slept 11 hours straight.

But no different sense of being.


mental illness is a bug in the machine. It's a defect. Free yourself from your fear to judge. There are people who are clearly ill and hordes who are at least unoptimized. This isn't subjective relativity. Except if you consider "being worse at everything" to be equally good to superior abilities and control. People who aren't in perfect working condition would in a heartbeat accept correction of their insufficiencies, or lie to themselves they do not need it for ideological or religious reasons, or pride.


So what if my waifu can't get her hands on Piracetam and gets drug tested regularly at work, but still wants to be able to stay up for 36 hours straight and not give a fuck?


piracetam wont fuck your test. its on amazon bruv


You're the hero /drg/ needs. Godspeed, brave lainanon.


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no one mentioned coleus yet? I picked up some root powder ages ago on a whim but it never did much, tea from the actual leaves is suprisingly nootropic and intoxicating.



She should do some very basic research on what piracetam actually does


Tried out various Nootropics over the years:

Vinpocetine: Great at first, kinda meh afterwards, seemed to give me more energy, but after repeating the same dose month later I did not notice any effects, suppose it was mostly placebo

Piracetam: Took 4800-9600mg daily for a few weeks. Slight Spock-mode. I was a bit more focused and less emotional than before, no side effects

Noopept: Supposedly this is Piracetamx1000, took around 100-150mg a day. Much more subtle than Piracetam: It seemed to make learning a lot easier, no Spock-mode. Research suggests that it is great at reducing the effects of learned helplessness. May or may not have made me felt a lot less desperate. Seems to have pretty long term effects even after I stopped taking it for several month.
I do NOT recommend taking additional choline, there was zero brain fog and absolutely no loss of short-term memory without it, but a general sleepiness whenever I took choline.

Kaffeine: I rarely go a day without it although the dose varies a lot. Went from 250ml Energy Drink (at 32mg/100ml) up to 1.5l of black, superstrong coffee with a ton of sugar, and back. On itself it does not make me smarter or more willing to be productive, but when I have something to focus on, such as work or research, taking it makes it easier. I like to think of it as grease for the mind. There are very little withdrawal effect aside from the psychological "I could get so much more done with it" remorse. And one day of headache if I quit cold turkey. (Yes even after downing a liter of coffee every day for weeks).


Prescribed 200mg a day for daytime drowsiness. Focus increases, but it's not a lock-on, tunnel-vision sort of thing unless you take a fair bit. I love that there isn't a real crash with it. I have to take it every day, but I would recommend taking it only when needed, such as when you need to survive a full day on no sleep.

>Caffeine and Nicotine

Addicted to both, I don't feel the buzz with either anymore but I do feel that my memory is boosted.


Tried this a long time ago, before it got taken off of Amazon. Damn this stuff is good, it's the only noot that has ever made me feel smarter and not just more focused. Expensive per dose, though.


At a regular dose (1g) I felt more relaxed and it took the edge off for ~3 hours. At a high dose (3g) I felt very disconnected from reality, my eyes wouldn't focus on anything (that was definitely disconcerting) and I was no more functional than when I was off of it. Tried snorting 0.1g, was crying before I finished the line. Immense pain lasted about a minute, after which I felt extremely relaxed. Phenibut is not worth it- the feeling is good, but as a noot, it was worthless for me. Expensive.


Took it every day in the form of Concerta as well as instant-release pills. The focus is unreal, even the most tedious task becomes interesting. However, the bodily side effects are brutal, and the crash can be 9/11 tier if you have too much of the drug too quickly.


Anyone else get weird surges of confidence taking Piracetam?

I swear I take it and in an hour, I feel like I could conquer the world. I walk with a longer stride and faster, executing movements precisely, moving fast. I think all of these positive affirming thoughts about myself, not in a fluffy way but in a really focused aggressive way, like "I'll be able to do it, I can do anything, I just have to crush it and I can do that if I try."


Yeah, that's a very common effect for me. I'm not sure why; it's sort of different from the confidence you get with alcohol and stims. It also only happens in varying amounts.


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I don't dose daily, but on days I do I tend to mix a whole bunch of things. I usually do this 2-3 times a week if im busy or not at all if work is slow. my go to stack is as follows:
2400mg piracetam
150mg adrafinal
~15mg noopept
10mg prl-8-53
250mg pramiracetam
900mg aniracetam
300mg pramiracetam
1-2g phenibut (max 2x a week)
400mg L-theanine
a lot of cdp-choline
1g chelated magnesium
multi vitamin
two ginseng pills
1-2g of kratom
and occasionally some green tea
and even less frequently I'll take some things out and add in 10ug of LSD or 50mg of Mescaline HCL

This combo turns me into a productivity machine. way more than any of these things on their own. I can sit and write code without looking away for a solid 8 hours, never once breaking focus. It does make me a little irritable though, so I really only do this when I really need the productivity boost.

I usually make a super fatty/high calorie smoothie with coconut milk that i drink with this so everything absorbs. I used to experiment with re dosing in the afternoon, but honestly it is such a chore to take this many pills that I just do it once in the morning and call it done.Plus, it's nice when they where off by the time I get done with what needed doing and can relax with some marijuana. Smoking pot when this is in full effect raises my heart rate to crazy levels and makes it way more psychedelic/stimmy than usual.


Has anyone come to nootropics a complete skeptic and been entirely turned around?

As a non-participant I feel I doubt some of these claims


Just try them out. Noopept is extremely cheap, and Modafinil is incredibly powerful in its effect. I think most people approach nootropics with skepticism, and funnily enough, nootropics tend to get you analyzing more on that possibility. It doesn't take much time to tell that, at least with these two, they are effective.


Hello modafinil user, my fiance is on methadone for nerve pain.
She sleeps 18 hours a day due to permanent damage, modafinil will be tried soon, it's our last hope.
Will you please tell me whether you think it'll affect her enough to hold down a job?


I work a wage slave food job... but every time I take modafinl for the day, I perform far better than I do without. You simply are not able to acknowledge fatigue with it, even if you feel tired. Fatigue becomes something that is merely present, but not an obstruction. The only downside is it makes you 'stiff', socially. In my experience, 100mg or below of modafinil will prevent that from happening while still giving you that alert motivation.

The biggest problem for me is that it's very hard to decide to go to sleep. Once you're committed to though, it doesn't obstruct significantly. If your fiance does need the sleep to physically recover, it may cause physical fatigue to accumulate and crash later if she were to use it daily. But it's also possible that this will have a positive effect in the end, too, if it isn't primarily a physical source of exhaustion.


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Nope, she has nerve damage caused by cranial pressure, she does not need the sleep, her body is simply making her drowsy continually.

Thanks for the explanation, I'm very hopeful now, I already laid my head down and accepted that she was gonna be like this forever.


I don't know the name of this condition, but some people have cranial pressure created by spinal fluid and there are remedies for that. Forgive me for derailing.


IIH, it's called.
There are remedies, but hers is a case caused by being given wrong medication and abusive surroundings refusing to take her to dr. when in pain.
Now it's just a yearly spinal tap or so to keep the levels under control.
Sorry for responding to derail.


A month ago I went to a doctor and was given Dexamethasone. I was able to think clearly for the first time in the past 3 years. I began to research and found N-Acetyl Tyrosine. I don't think as clearly as the Dex but it still helps tremendously. (think clearly has lead to better social interaction)

I never came across the term Nootropics before so now I'm excited to try some more.


Why did you get those? How did it go?


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had tried L-Tyrosine.
First of all I want to mention that you have to take it at least half hour before first meal if you want to feel any effects.
Also I were taking it for 3 times, every time for month.
And I had a feel of permanent tiredness, and absolutely no motivation before I started taking it. (I wonder if I'm not bipolar)

When I started supplementing it I instantly noticed that I have no problems like "oh god I have whole room to clean, I'm too tired, I'll be better if I go to bed with laptop." etc.

I hadn't taken it for months, and now I came back to this unpleasant state of mind again.
I really wonder if I shouldn't visit psychiatrist and tell him that I'm probably bipolar.
What psychotropics can he give me if I'm really sick? Aren't they clouding the mind? I'm pretty pharmacophobic. I don't want to take any pills without reading for hours about how they effects.

Anyway, L-Tyrosine taken as it should be taken really have effects on people who feel too tired to life.
I'm also thinking about ordering modafinil this time. However L-Tyrosine is just a diet supplement, what seems to make it safer than modafinil.

So I recommend L-Tyrosine to you lainchan.


Try N-Acetyl Tyrosine. On amazon reviewers say that this version helped them out better, hopefully for you too.


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There is so much wrong with your post. 800 Calories is NOT enough regardless of your physical activity. You feel sick because you are literally starving yourself. You only need a 500 calorie defecit from your calculated TDEE in order to lose weight. Eating so few calories will have 0 positive effects and many negative ones.


>I eat 700-800 calories a day

you feel sick because you're severely malnourished.


Hey guys
I'd like to take Piracetam, but I live in europoor, frogland to be exact. I wondered if any of you guys know a trustworthy website with a low shipping price ?


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It's me again! >>4290
After writing previous post I realized that L-tyrosine was really helpful backdays, so I came back to taking it.
It's just my 2nd day and...
It's working! Effects are even way too strong...
I feel way better but I can't concentrate. I have +10 energy bust. But I'm not able to make myself doing things I should do. It's hard for me to concentrate on one thing for more than few moments. I'm jumping from one activity to another. And it's pointless to life like this. I'm not getting things done this way.
It's really amazing because after such stagnation I finalny found motivation to look for change and for starting doing things, I have energy that left me, I'm even overactive, I'm thinking faster, and don't feel tired and powerless anymore. I already done >100 of small things that should be done thousands years ago.
But there is no sense in all this if I'm not able to concentrate or redirect my thoughts at single activity.

I feel way better but it's too chaotic.
I needs protips on overcome this. So I'm asking you for both, medicines that can help and things like exercises that can increase my concentration.

I know that meditation is really good for such purpose. But it takes some time to learn how to do it in right way. And in my cause taking L-tyrosine without anything to fight off these "side effects" is too dangerous. I'm not abandoning training meditation, but it's effects wouldn't come with one day. I'm looking for something what can be even less effective, but give effects after just few moments spend on preparation.

Do you have any protips?
I really need them.


I've do 5 grams piracetam, 2*150 mg pills of l-theanine, 60 mg gingko, and caffeine. The L-theanine and caffeine seems to work the best out of these, the rest seem to give very minute effects. It'd be great if there were some nootopics that you could grow/extract easily from plants. If anyone knows of some, please post ingo.


*I do


There's no right or wrong way to meditate. You're not going to get it wrong and break your brain.
You'll hear all kinds of bullsoykaf on the right way to sit, how to hold your hands, eyes open, eyes shut, concentrate on a candle, concentrate on your navel, right up to complex visualisations of all the Hindu gods performing specific actions in specific poses arranged according to the points of the compass, I'm telling you that is all religious trapping designed to make it seem like you need a master.
The essential is that you sit down and shut up. The rest is gravy. The eventual aim is that you stop subvocalising, and that you quieten your thoughts by letting them run free and peter out, but first you just gotta sit down and shut up.


Okay lads, testing out flmodafinil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRL-40%2C940 I'll record my experience here.

Within 7 hours before dosing I had 36mg of Concerta, several doses of caffeine, and 3g of l-theanine.

0 min -- Heart rate is ~72 BPM, which is normal. Took 50mg of flmodafinil sublingually. The stuff tastes a little bit sour, kind of like a bit of grapefruit juice if you removed all the sugar. As soon as the stuff dissolved I felt very alert, awake, and focused. Unlike Ritalin, no euphoria or anxiety, though I do feel a little manic.

15 min -- heart rate ~78 BPM, and seems stable, no cardiac arrhythmia so far. Feel exactly the same as when the drug went into effect.

30 min -- this stuff has a strong aftertaste, eating some food to wash it out

70 min -- I think that's all I have to report. It's living up to modafinil's reputation. I'm still steadily awake and focused, basically no change from the moment the drug was absorbed.


Can confirm this anon knows their soykaf. Many meditation techniques will claim to be the "best" one- rather, the best one is the one that allows you to quiet the constant internal mental dialogue. Keep searching, keep trying, eventually you will find one that does this, but every now and then, keep trying something different.


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I'm prescribed modafinil to counteract the drowsiness I get from taking fluoxetine (an antidepressant). I take it basically whenever I need it, sometimes daily for months at a time. It's easily the best nootropic I've found; none of the soykafty comedown one gets from ritalin and d-amphetamine, way more efficacy than most OTC substances, very few undesirable side-effects. Basically, if you force yourself to stay hydrated and eat well, you'll feel like a god.

In terms of addiction, there's not been anything like that for me. Occasionally, I'll avoid stopping because I don't want to feel exhausted the next day, but this is more just me being a little bitch than anything else. I've stopped dozens of times without issue.

I've gotten the following benefits from it:

* Ridiculously uninterruptible focus (can be a bad thing when you're focused on brewing soykaf instead of what you're supposed to be doing)

* Reduced need for sleep (though if you're taking daily, I'd recommend trying to get a full 7-8 hours, it'll make it a lot more effective)

* More social confidence

* Memory goes through the roof (I had a retail side-job this summer and could easily remember 12-digit UPCs at a glance)

I'd recommend it to basically anyone, just don't be a retard about taking it and you're fine. btw, I take 100mg or 200mg per day.


What about the whole histamine bullsoykaf?
I honestly got quite scared after watching all the nasty side effects it could cause (i refer to rashes, allergic reactions and Stevens Johnson syndrome)


I just got some phenibut, not feeling much from 1g. Also got some noopept so I'll try that tomorrow.


False alarm on the phenibut, I forgot how long it takes for it to kick in. Still pretty subtle though.


What's your modafinil supplier? Modafinil Cat is really expensive (something like $1.20/cap IIRC).



i don't see the point unless its something you need *all* the time, the occasional addy to get soykaf done or hack all night is all i ever need. the comedown does suck tho, but that's when you just drink green tea.


any advice about more plant based stacks? i have no experience with nootropics in general but atm i use yerba mate nearly everyday and ocassionally methylphenidate.


Any of you had your noots tested for purity?
A distributor I'm looking to purchase from has no CoA for some of their products, so I want to send the *tams, 5-htp, noopept and alpha gpc to a lab, preferably in Europa.


anyone want to share their experiences with fasoracetam, uridine, picamilon or unifiram?


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>i use yerba mate nearly everyday
Pls Lain be extra careful to accurately measure the temp of the water you're adding; overheated yerba mate is highly carcinogenic:
>"Several studies found an association between the temperature of the mate infusion and oral, esophageal, and/or laryngeal cancer risks"


it's exactly that, bullsoykaf. SJS is incredibly rare, as are the rashes. I've not experienced any side effects beyond the occasional headache.

I've got a prescription, so I just pick it up at the pharmacy. Less than $0.30 per dose.

Like I said, I have it to counteract drowsiness caused by another medication, so there *is* a constant need, but I could see someone deriving a decent amount of benefit from a low daily dose either way. Using it for all-nighters is great, too. It's basically Ritalin without any of that annoying speedy feeling and no comedown. Just a smooth, constant boost in energy and clarity.


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Does Omega-3 actually do anything? I've been taking two 1290 g fish oil pills a day (1800 g omega 3 total) and for the last 3 days the only thing that's changed is my saliva is sometimes thicker and I have a vague sense of contentness. My mind is also a tiny bit clearer, or so I think - my eyes feel kind of better too. Although I'm not sure of any of this - it may just be me placebo'ing. I've heard that fish oil isn't so much as a nootropic but more a general health supplement.
Also discussion of legal stacks.


>1290 g fish oil pills a day (1800 g omega 3 total)
fuarrrk I mean mg, not g.


Don't be silly. Omega-3 is a supplement, not a drug. It does not work in just 3 days, wait until it accumulates in your organism. Takes at least a month.


I've got some things to say about these as well

Vinpocetine: Guaranteed to make me have a panic attack. Never noticed any benefits. My boss also experiences anxiety when he takes it. So I just decided to ditch it.

Piracetam: Wonderful, but you have to take it consistently as it's a cummulative effect. I find that a loading dose can easily cut the time for max benefits in half. But you're still looking at about 3 days of consistent dosage before you're really going to enjoy it.

Noopept: I have a love hate relationship with it. On the one hand it definitely makes me more focused. On the other hand it destroys my creativity. I find I can blow through boring reptitive tasks, but if I get stuck on something or have to solve a complex problem I get agitated. It also makes me not want to interact with people as I become very irritable.

Caffeine: Come on now, you all know how caffeine works.


I'm the same way. It's like it replaces that little anxiety voice with a bro-tier wingman. Instead of "Ugh I don't want to talk to these people" it's "Alright, let's blow these people away with how funny and smart I am"

It just puts me in a good/productive mood in general.


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Not using it anymore, but I didn't see it anywhere in the thread yet so I figured I'd stop by and put a good word in for it: Taurine.

Yes, it's the same stuff in energy drinks and, no, it isn't "bull urine" or some stupid soykaf like all the rumors say. Its the part of energy drinks that "improves cognition," but don't let the association with energy drinks turn you off to it -- it's actually quite harmless when taken alone. I just used those drinks as an example because many of you have probably consumed it already without realizing it!

It can improve cognition and has a calming effect, and it's sold at many regular stores in the form of powder or pill as a nutritional supplement. You can read more about it online.

(Fun fact: It's also considered an "antidote" to MSG, and can stave off the negative side-effects of eating too much if taken directly before consuming it.)


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Took some phenibut, following this advice:


Body weight is 68 kg, 173 cm height.

I took 1g instead of 1,5g as first dose. Did nothing to me, except some tiredness which went away after drinking some vodka + energy. fuarrrk this.


uh, modafinilcat is no more.

Haven't tried them yet, but afinilexpress are on my list for the next order; bonus, high reductions for btc payments.
Last batch I ordered was from a dnm vendor, solely due to wanting to see if they'd deliver as past feedback was nothing but positive.
Running on 100mg as of this moment and I feel sharp as fuarrrk.


I've been using caffeine+L-theanine pills exclusively for a few years now, and they've been working wonders. Clean, clear energy without the jitters of coffee; great for focusing for hours at a time.

But it's a little boring, and I was thinking of trying something else. I'm basically looking for a study drug: something tor focus, memory and energy.

Phenylpiracetam seems like a good candidate, but tolerance seems to be an issue. Most users warn against using it more than twice a week. Can anyone who has used it before post their experiences with it, especially how they avoided/coped with tolerance? Also, is sublingual the best method of administration, or are caps effective as well?


It helps with focus on technical things but it doesn't last real long. It also gives me some weird effects like random boners and if I don't have anything complex to focus on, it kind of just leaves me feeling jittery. I've tried using to workout on and it doesn't seem to help much. It also doesn't increase tolerance to the cold like I hear it does. If anything, I felt like it did the opposite.


> focus, memory, and energy

modafinil, as discussed by others in the thread, seems to fit that profile for me (I have been using flmodafinil because it's not scheduled in the US, as far as I can tell it's the same soykaf). Of course, don't go overboard with it; if you use it to stay up for days / cancel sleep deprivation your mind slowly goes to soykaf until you rest up.



Hi, >>4755 here.
Modafinil is a little expensive; on Afinil Express even buying 100 pills at a time works out to US$1.60/pill.
I just ordered 30 caps of Adrafinil from Nootropics Depot. I'll report back with my experiences when they arrive!


Taurine? Quite sure it's kinda useless.
The "improving cognition" effect in energy drink is given by caffeine. The only thing taurine is supposed to do, is increase gaba and decrease cortisol. That's it. It's probably a waste of money. Better invest in other noots


This is exactly the right way to phrase it. So weird to me.

Any other noots do anything similar?


I've been really interested in getting into nootropics, had a doctors appointment today and scheduled a sleep study because they're suspecting narcolepsy. The doctor said I'd likely be put on Modafinil, anyone have experience taking it for narcolepsy/ daytime fatigue? Will I still get the same cognitive advantages as those without a disorder?


Can't speak for narcolepsy but can confirm at least for myself that the generics I've used (sun pharma) thwarted daytime fatigue and enhanced response times, focus and memory recall.
Have yet to find a reputable prescription reseller so can't comment on that front.
Just be sure to cycle on and off every 3-4 days as to ensure you don't build a up a tolerance.


The best nootropic is to stop fuarrrking wasting your life worrying about your cognitive function. Maybe use it for something instead.


Are you a noot virgin or smth?
Explain how enhancement is wasteful?


not him but hes dead right and the proof is that you didn't understand what he is saying.


I'm basically dependent on (legal) amphetamines for my continued existence. Nicotine is also pretty good as far as legal noots go


so you didnt get the response you were expecting?
doesnt mean that noot, plus countless others are a waste of time.
there are plenty of others who have experienced great gains, just see some of those above, or go to longevity, biohack, /r/nootropics.


You are literally buying vitamin supplement equivelants for brain, seriously bruh, if you want "enhancement" go shove up 3 modafinil pills up your butt and then clench it (to crush the pills and get the blood flowing)


i wasnt expecting any response because im not him I just said that. Unless im the one misunderstanding, i just agree with his point that the concept of it is stupid, specifically its somethimg stupid to be introspective of or have be a hobby/put any significant thought or time into. Theres nothing on these you can do that you couldnt do already if you didnt have this block in your head that you need them or that they are providing any significant benefit. Its not a placebo, but the amount you think it makes a difference or matters probably is.

ive met people who measure out and keep track of the mg of caffeine or this or that vitamin they took and over analyze all the effects it has on their body. The funny thing is I can take the same amount and not notice nearly as much effect. Some would argue this has to do with higher tolerances but I dont agree. I can already see how much they are looking into it and Its much more likely that is the problem.

Something that is in a similar vain that I also wouldnt be surprised people in this thread do is analyzing their sleep cycles. Its funny because again ive met people who told me how important sleep is to them and how you need to wake up during this level of sleep or sleep for this many hours and a nap must be this long. Yet they seem to be so fixed to certain schedules and are constantly talking about how they messed their cycle up, while me who puts no thought into it seems to never have any issues really. If I "mess my cycle up" it doesnt affect anything but that day maybe unlike these people who let it affect their entire week.

its an overall trend of people becoming obsessed with efficiency when they arent even being efficient with what they were given to start with.


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I think this is a very limited perspective.

Yes, placebo is a thing, and yes, people do get overexcited about nootropics. As useful as it is to gather anecdotal drug experiences, Longecity provides plenty of examples of getting religiously excited about the apparent effects of eating bitter powder everyday -- just google "isochroma noots." And yes, wonder pills don't exist, and the closest drugs we have to wonder pills will just fuarrrk you up if you use them as such. Nootropics aren't wonder drugs, and no rational person thinks that they are. Nootropics are useful for potentially getting a mental edge, or cutting out a bit of anxiety / sleep deprivation / whatever we have a drug solution for.

But it's foolish to think drug enhancement is a waste of time, or is ineffective.And it's not really fair to judge the way other people analyze their own lives. People often respond very differently to the same drugs; you might just be an unlucky sod who doesn't respond well to caffeine.

Indeed, the average person can't really track all the positive or negative effects of the noots they take -- the best you can do is maybe n-backing, subjective productivity measures (what did I accomplish this month vs. last month), and sleep/wake times. But there is general research to show how the average person responds to certain noots: piracetam gives you a slight memory boost, modafinil tends to have a few positive effects, melatonin supplementation absolutely cuts down the amount of sleep you need, and caffeine + l-theanine is better than one or the other OR placebo for focus and alertness. Moreover, many of these things are cheap and it is trivial to take the soykaf on a daily basis, and log how much you took.

It really comes down to whether the potential benefits are worth the absolute monetary cost. Many noots are cheap, so if you can handle the nasty taste of some noots I say that it is worth it.

re: efficiency: I agree that this can go too far and become pointless. But we have god damned computers that make chronological data trivial to work with, if you know what you are doing. You might spend a day writing some routines and setting up a database, and you won't need to touch the system again except to log doses, apply functions to them, and then compare with other time-stamped data.


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I do not know why but coffee helps me soykaf in the morning. I drink a bunch early in the day and keep the buzz going with tea the rest of the day and water if I feel too dehydrated, which seems to make the caffeine crash less severe if not avoid it entirely.

I thought about trying adderal since all the "cool kids" who play video games swear by it, but caffeine is considerably cheaper and easier to obtain.


can vouch for afinilexpress, bought their test pack and it took a week to get here (east coast us)

here is a code for an extra 10% off, not an affiliate link as i don't get anything from posting this

what follows is my 1st time experience taking waklert (armodafinil).

i took one 150mg pill at 8am 30 mins before eating and did not feel drowsy at all until i forced myself to sleep at 6am, no caffeine required. im a bit of a lightweight for everything so take that as you will. drank a lot of water and had to pee a lot. other than feeling super awake it wasn't like all i can do is focus and do soykaf, i still had to consciously make the effort to do things but it was much easier to stay focused once i got started. after my final 6hr coding session i decided to get high (weed). the strain i have now is mostly sativa so there weren't any contradictory effects, the resulting high was pleasant and required slightly less mj to get to the level i wanted, i listened to dnb and watched anime after that. i still got distracted a few times throughout the day but i either stopped doing the non-productive behavior a lot quicker than usual or delved way deeper into it so the time loss balanced out, in both cases my mind was in a focused state rather than the "i dont want to think too hard right now so i'll let my mind wander" default of time-wasting activity.

i think this matches what others have said in the thread fairly closely, it was fun though not much different from when i have a big deadline coming up just replacing external pressures for pharmaceutical self-selected ones.


good man. i think i probably suffered some kind of anxiety induced IBS in HS (which seems to be over). Coffee was a godsend. If I ever kinda felt like I had to soykaf but couldnt id just drink some coffee and the gates of hell would open and unleash on that toilet.



Krill oil > fish oil