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No.45

I smoke pot but it doesn't seem to be helping with my depression, and my insurance doesn't cover mental help.

Are their any drugs that can help with depression?

  No.46

Antidepressants are actually very legitimately helpful for a lot of people. I was pretty against them for most of my life, not wanting to significantly alter my brain chemistry while also believing that most of my depression was behavioral and could be overcome by willpower.

After almost a decade and a half of depression being a major undercurrent in my life, I decided to go the AD route.

I wish I'd started it years and years ago. It certainly hasn't just cured my depression, but it has helped me manage it, and I feel more like myself in a way that's hard to quantify, but is definitely felt. (I could elaborate.) That said, I still experience some heavy depression symptoms and had to work to change ingrained habits , and the depression hasn't totally disappeared - ie, they're not magic. But they certainly help.

St. Johns Wort is a plant that works as a herbal SSRI. I have had friends that have said it worked really well for them. Seems to be a somewhat costly habit (due to dosage vs. cost of volume of pills needed.)

Alternatively, a good psychedelic experience can be really wonderful for helping face the roots of ones depression. Conversely, if can also easily cause a very bad experience, and magnify symptoms of depression while you're on the drug, and possibly after.

I have also used CBT therapy and have found that it worked while I was taking it, but did not actually work after. However, at the period that I was receiving the therapy (ending just before the election) and especially the period following - where I would have had to put in effort to continue the habits and work on internalizing the techniques from the therapies - I was going through an extremely rough and transitional period of my life, while also grieving the sudden death of a close friend on Election night. So, I didn't really have the bandwidth for it. The therapy itself seems very effective.

  No.52

>>45
Try 5 HTP, it's a serotonin precursor, you can get it over the counter.

  No.53

Try exercise, Lain. Even if you don't think it'll help you I'd advice you'd at least give it a shot before going in for drugs.
Here's a source I think is pretty factual:
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/exercise-vs-drugs-for-depression/
https://nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_search=depression&fwp_content_type=video

Good luck.

  No.54

Ketamine seems to be very promising for depression OP, you may want to take a look at it.

  No.55

>>53
the question is that exercise will help, but rather will depression let me exercise. I know that sounds misguided. I've been finding myself often avoiding people, classes, opting instead for online courses for college so I don't have to talk to people.

  No.56

I hate to be "that guy" But how long and how often have you been smoking pot? Taking a few months break may help balance your head out a bit. Being sober does blow. But on the plus side you will begin to dream more vividly. Perhaps look into lucid dreaming if you haven't already. I'm not condoning it but lucid dreaming was an escape for me a few years ago when I was a neet.

  No.57

>>55
beat me to the punch. exercise definitely helps significantly, but sometimes depression is strong enough that getting out of bed, let alone forcing yourself to work out and be active, is extremely difficult.
>>56
this is a very good point. part of the reason I started taking antidepressants was because I realized I'd been self-medicating with drugs for a decade and a half. it was a double edged sword - i was able to use pot to be more in touch with my feelings, but constantly numbing those feelings by getting high only created a soykaf feedback loop.

  No.58

>>56
Not alot, I smoked about once or twice a week and only about one or two bowls. so i'm pretty tame when it comes to weed.

  No.59

>>55
Now you are just making excuses. Going out and walking/running track doesn't require communication what so ever. Wear a pair of headphones. You cant hear people and its a pretty good sign that says fuarrrk off I don't want to talk im here to work out. Going out and getting some sun will also help its a win/win. I can't understand what you are going through but my personal experience was that I constantly made excuses and would dwell in bad places. Take a few chances here and there and start practicing positive thinking.

  No.60

>>54
seconded. it worked wonders when I became depressed from accutane

  No.61

things that aren't drugs:
just going outside at least once a week for a walk.
Changing something drastic about your appearance can sometimes trick your brain into accepting changes to your personality easier.
greens and blues
eating vegetables and soykaf. I thought it wouldn't do anything but it actually makes you feel better.

drugs:
5-htp, it is in a lot of teas
psilocybin. Be warned, it will show you what you need to see, not what you want to see and this can be scary.
ketamine microdose for anxiety but for me it just makes me want to stay in my room more rather than making changes.
LSD microdoses I've heard good things about but never tried myself
3-meo-pcp will make you manic for a while so if that seems like something you want then go ahead
DXM afterglow is fuarrrking great but unfortunately you have to actually take DXM to get that which I don't enjoy and is also not good for you at all
if you have social anxiety I recommend gabapntin/pregabalin
SSRIs are a trap
benzos are a trap
opiates are are trap, but a really fuarrrking good one.
alcohol is a trap

good luck lainon.

  No.62

>>61
This dude basically knows his soykaf. I would second DXM, although that should be if you actually want to risk "getting into" drugs as well as help your depression. Anything aside from SSRI's and vitamin/herbal supplements, you will definitely feel it a bit when you take it.

Look into Phenibut OP. I feel like it is exactly what you want. However be wary, look into it fully. If you really mess up with it and take high doses over time it will screw you. But if you trust that you are responsible and take like 1g every 2 days or 500mg a day you will be fine. Doesn't fuarrrk you up really, can go about your day on it.

If you aren't afraid of trying new things i'm sure there are many legal/illegal substances that would help 'cure' your depression, but that doesn't mean you should get into using them. Unless you are responsible and have some self control unlike myself.

  No.67

Before taking any of these drugs people recommended to you, you should probably understand the pharmacodynamics of each one. Some suggested here:
>SSRI and 5-HTP
I'll mess with your serotonin. I don't suggest use of SSRI as it may cause lower LTP, which means less formation of memories. Can also cause less erection.
Modulating serotonin in generaly cause changes in mood. 5-HTP will do good at first, but it has not many evidence for long term effects on depression.
>Ketamine and DXM
Are NMDA receptor antagonists. This receptor of Glutamate is associated with learning and attachment to reality. The general understanding is that people with depression stay too much focused on little facts and traumas. NMDA antagonists cause you to "get off" it more easily.
It has some potential side effects though, especially on learning. I wouldn't recommend ketamine nor DXM in this case. Ketamine is too difficult to get being it >95% pure and DXM will do bad for you. If you want to go the NMDA route you could buy Memantine (10mg/day) instead.
>Psychedelics
Generally they modulate a receptor of serotonin called 5HT-2A. There's some evidence of it's usage for depression (check Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelics Studies - MAPS). I'd suggest a try on psilocybin, it's pretty safe. You can buy the psilocybe cubensis or grow you own. Just put 2g on lemon juice and drink the juice. After ~25min you'll start to feel it. Don't forget to do it in a very silent ambient (with ear plug, eye mask and lay on bed) and with some friend you really, truly, trust.
>Phenibut
Modulates GABA. This neurotransmitter is what controls the levels of the other ones, so it's generally associated with anxiety changes. Phenibut is really effective, but may cause dependence if you too much.
>exercise
It helps in many ways. For example, the release of BDNF hormone seems to help with depression. It's really effective.
>eating better
Also really effective. People with depression often have some imbalance on certain nutrients, such as Vitamin D and Vitamin B12. You should eat better to supply these, get sun (for Vit. D) and maybe take a multi-vitamin to get some nutrients will not get easily through food (all levels of B complex, for example). The mineral Lithium has some evidence of helping with depression, it's a mood stabilizer.

  No.69

>>55
Don't think, just run. Put on some clothes fit for running and set an alarm to ring a couple hours from now. When you hear the alarm, turn your mind off, go out and start running. No running technique, just do it like there's a dog chasing you. Aim for some park and run around it. I hope the days following it'll become easier each time.
Or just look for something that works better for you, if you had enough willpower to make this thread you should be able to think for a bit and find a not-so-bad reason or way to go out and run around. If you mind other joggers looking at you, just take a look at how ridiculous they look with those fluorescent shorts and fruit salad shoes.

  No.70

>>69
cont.
Or just walk, don't run. Be as depressed as you'd be if you were in bed, but do it walking around your city.

  No.71

File: 1492883348944.png (1.13 MB, 200x150, 1458176618815-fit.gif)

Actually seek help. A psychoanalyst for example. You aren't to solve jack soykaf by using drugs while believing the meme that depression is just a "chemical imbalance"

  No.72

>>69
Seconding this. Long time exercise release more BDNF. If you don't want to get out, you can do High Intensity Interval Training using Plyometrics at home. just 15min and you're done for the day.

>>71
>social constructivist
Depression is, in fact, an chemical imbalance. It is a fact.
I don't agree, though, that you solve this just by taking drugs, indeed. But you can't disagree that it is true that depression is an imbalance.
That's why I like the psychedelics approach: you do your own "CBT" using your own thoughts and also recover the imbalance of serotonin. Both biological determinism and social constructivism approachs in one thing.
>psychoanalyst
It's not accepted anymore on psychology. It's like astrology now for academy. The thing now is Skinner's behaviorism for psychology.

  No.74

>>72

I was not advocating for psychology anyway, but for psychoanalysis. I am not really concerned with the first.

Anyway, you should try to introspect into what is it that makes you depressed. Because it isn't some magical condition that appears out of nowhere with the same symptoms.

Anxiety? Guilt? Shame? You have to speak.

  No.75

>>74
That's not how depression works, that's how sadness works.
If you're sad, angry or happy you can debug with introspection to find out why.

Words have meaning and the name "depression" does not refer to "sadness", it cannot be "debbuged" in the same way. It's the equivalent of comparing a rock to a cannonball.

  No.76

OP here, thanks so much for all the help in this thread, I've started taking long walks and it has helped a bit. I'm hesitant about seeing someone, because my health insurance doesn't cover it.

  No.77

>>75

The majority of people who use that word don't use it as the medical term.

When someone says "I have depression" you can not just assume he suffers the same exact symptoms as everyone else does.

My suggestion to OP still stands, try to get in contact with a clinic, preferably Lacanian, and ask for their prices. Some may make a discount depending on your income.

  No.81

Try lithium carbonate. Helps me, is safe enough, I don't know how you'd acquire it without a rx but I think it'd be easy enough..

  No.82

>>77
>Lacanian
dude, are you kidding? Psychoanalysis, as I said, is not used anymore. There's some studies and psychoanalysis does not seems to show any amelioration of symptoms in a consistent way. At least not in the same stable (statistically) way as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy together with antidepressants (3th generation).
I do agree with you that OP probably should get some professional help but, don't try to push some old approaches to this problem.
I see application of psychoanalysis on art, personally, but not on health care anymore.

  No.83

>>81
There is Lithium Orotate, you can buy without an "rx", and seems to have the same effects (but fuarrrk your liver faster).

  No.84

>>76
I'm really happy to hear that. I think the next step would be to step up the pace into jogging. If you gradually start eating healthier and trying to avoid sedentarianism your health will improve all around and that's good because it helps you break or slow the "depression affects your health <-> bad health feeds into your depression" loop. Then you'll hopefully be able to feel steadier to take steps against what's depressing you while maybe improving yourself in other aspects.

  No.85

>>82

What amelioration of symptoms? Where are your sources? Each case takes years to be considered finished, and again, symptoms do not behave like viruses that disappear after a computer scan. There are a myriad of factors which have their importance in each individual treatment.

  No.88

>>85
>We came to conclude that the recovery rate of various mental disorders was equal after LTPP or various control treatments, including treatment as usual. The effect sizes of the individual trials varied substantially in direction and magnitude. In contrast to previous reviews, we found the evidence for the effectiveness of LTPP to be limited and at best conflicting.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272735811001863

>In general, the evidence-base of CBT is very strong.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3584580/

>Higher doses of SSRIs appear slightly more effective in major depressive disorder

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26552940

Of course, I might be doing cherry picking here, since it's not my area of study and I do not review every single paper out there. That's why I only picked meta-analysis, since it has less biased results.

  No.89

>>76
As the other anon said, happy to hear it. Check out ketogenic diet, may help too. Or just eat more protein, less carbohydrates and some deep-green leafs (such as spinach).

  No.95

>>88

I am specifically advocating for Lacanian psychoanalysis. Your "source", which is beyond a paywall, talks about "LTPP", with no details as to what this means, nor specific practice, clinic where the study was done, practicioners. I can't take this seriously.

Psychoanalysis treats psychopathology differently than psychology, even having different goals. This article elucidates better where they diverge.

  No.96

>>46
Didn't OP just say his insurance didn't cover mental health? That disqualifies most of your suggestions.

As for St. John's wort I tried it one winter and it seemed to help; tried it another winter in a different town and totally different situation in most aspects of my life and it didn't do jack. I know it works for some people but I think it's wasted on me. In the first case I had the love of a good woman, stress free rental situation, exciting music scene, dozens of friends. The second time, I had none of these plus a string of other bad luck.

  No.97

>>83
>>81
Lithium isn't for depression, it's for the other end of the bipolar experience. Usually it's prescribed with an anti-depressant with the hope that the two will keep you in some safe middle.

  No.99

>>95
> with no details as to what this means, nor specific practice, clinic where the study was done, practicioners.

Do you understand what a "meta-analysis" is, right?

>>97
Lithium is not exclusive for bipolar disorder... It's actually a mood stabilizer. As people with depression have mood fluctuation, mood stabilizers seems to help in some occasions. Here's one study:
>The acute antidepressant effect of lithium alone is neither as impressive nor as predictable as its antimanic action, nor is it equivalent to that of tricyclic antidepressants. In patients who are 'refractory' to tricyclics or monoamine oxidase inhibitors, combined treatment with lithium may augment antidepressant response.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3325026

  No.101

in highschool i had to do a project on drugs for my forensic biology elective, i choose to do shrooms, one of the things that it can do is help with depression,iirc
Psilocybin is changed to seritonin and gets you not depressed for a period of a few months.
that being said shrooms can bring out uncomfortable self-truths so.... its your choice

  No.102

>>96
You are correct. However, it's possible to get antidepressants under health insurance without them specifically being separated into a mental health category. Depends on the insurance, as well as the doctor. Potentially something OP could see if possible.

Further, my prescription is about to run out soon, and I've found that I can hypothetically get 100 of my meds (generic) for about $35, using one of those Rx discount cards, ie, something like pic related. They do work if your pharmacy accepts them, so call ahead.

I've not tried SSRI, but have heard it works for some people and not for others. As you said, the situation is important, as well at the individual's reaction.

  No.104

>>45
try saffron
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hup.2434/full
n the placebo-comparison trials, saffron had large treatment effects and, when compared with antidepressant medications, had similar antidepressant efficacy. Saffron's antidepressant effects potentially are due to its serotonergic, antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, neuro-endocrine and neuroprotective effects.

  No.105

>>101
I don't think that's the mechanism it helps with depression.