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No.9076

this is just something interesting i was thinking about. Do you think anyone can be saved or save themselves, or fix their issues or get better? Or do you tend to believe people are stuck with their flaws and traits? If someone has attatchment issues or anti social can they change that from within? Can they change it with help?

i just was realizing I never thought about it till i wanted to really change myself on the inside, and then i realized i never thought i could before. Id say soykaf like oh you cant help someone who cant help themselves and shiy but it didnt really have much meaning to me even though i thought it did. think about some terrible character trait of yours, maybe even one that at the moment you have no reason to change and youce just accepted is a part of you, could you change it?

  No.9078

Yes, you can. The only thing stopping anyone is not believing they can, and not wanting to change.
Some people have their issues tied up with their self-image, for that there's Psycho-cybernetics, the discipline that Ziggy Ziglar and Tony Robbins based their work on.

Some people just react like programmed automatons, like at some point they stopped accepting new input. for that there's the upper tier of Feldenkrais Method, "spontaneity", an exercise to break out of a behavioural rut.

Some people react like animals, never controlling their instinctive reactions. For them, Alexander Technique has similar trick they call "inhibition", which does the same thing in reverse, but with the same outcome, strengthening your free will.

If not one of the above, there's self-hypnosis, directly ordering the subconscious to enact the change we want. Sleep tapes, binaural beats, subliminals, autosuggestion, creative visualisation, positive reinforcement, guided meditation, it's possible to shape yourself internally the same way that a bodybuilder will shape their body, to create a different persona and adopt it. You just have to want it, believe it, create it, become it.

  No.9079

I've been struggling with some serious personal flaws for the last three years, and I think whole heatedly that I have improved greatly. I used to be very overly judgmental, and mean. And at some point I realized it was do to some underlying insecurities.

I've come a long way, and improved greatly, and I think what it takes is general self awareness. You need to be able to look at your self and see your flaws, then give it your all to improve on them.

I'm far from perfect, and these insecurities and my judgmental attitude are still there. And if I lose self awareness, as every one does, I some times lose sight of what I am saying and where it's coming from and I say soykaf to people that I shouldn't.

Some people never really get in touch with them self on some level, if you lack self awareness, and you can't get a grasp on your self, then I believe you don't progress as a person, and that's why people don't improve their flaws.

I don't want to end this on that note, so keep on forward anon.

  No.9080

>>9076
Well that's an interesting topic. People usually get radical, polarized opinions on the matter.
Some of them have a very anthropocentric, often spiritual/occult/magical sort of view where everything is the product of choice and will, and thus bad things are your fault, and your fault only.
Some others take a cold deterministic materialist approach, where the entire world is governed by a set of strict laws and some initial state/values. In their view everything is the product of the system, including you, your thoughts, faults, or the supposed "change" which was gonna happen under any circumstances anyway.
To make discussion on such a topic even more polarized, people who are favorable to neither side often have to adopt one to oppose someone who is radical about the other. This may make them seem radical as well, but they were just trying to balance the conversation into the middle.
The make the matter even hotter, there's the practical-theoretical divide in this topic. It's well know that in practice, crude abstractions often work better than perfectly precise theories (e.g. using 3,1415 in fast graphical calculations instead of the precise value). My point is that presenting either radical view as truth often makes it quite easy to change the behavior of certain types of people in the desired manner (make them less depressed/anxious, or more responsible, etc), even if those views are not true. This is akin to lying to children about Santa, or denying the dangers of a situation to help someone in danger navigate out stress-free. Even if a radical view does help the person emotionally/psychologically, doesn't necessarily mean that it's true; yet both the person saying it as advice, and the one receiving it as advice are more inclined to believe so if it works.

I think both the radical views are wrong as soon as they deny the other. They have their practical use but as theories they seem to have limited scopes. A theory that could explain the same phenomena both ways would likely be closer to truth (e.g. you are responsible for your actions and their consequences even though they are just a clockwork world happening). This way a person is not "isolated" from the system as an independent entity in full control, but also isn't alienated from his own actions as if those were done by the system, and not himself.

  No.9084

I believe that anyone can change themselves, most people change unwillingly anyway.

I mostly agree with >>9078, but my version is a bit simpler, as I havent read anything on the subject. All you need is a "Fake it' til you make it" approach. Just try act in a certain way that is your ideal self, be it more confidence or whatever you wish for, however unnatural it may seem at first, until you make it your own and slowly become more like your ideal self.

At least, that's my version.

  No.9086

>>9076
If they know wrong from right, know fully what wrong and right is, trust that perception to be truth, and unwaveringly want to do right instead of just saying they're going to, then they are being saved.

  No.9088

>>9084
I always liked the "Fake it until you make it" approach and it worked for me many times but sometimes I think it's just not enough. I believe that people can change to a certain point and some traits will remain no matter what. The problem is you can never be sure if someone has really changed or he is faking it really good.

I am struggling with many flaws myself and I was able to repair many of them so we can say I am at least a little bit optimistic in that subject. The main problem might be sometimes thinking that it's enough to change some things about your character and after that you will be happy. For me it's a constant fight and while I am concentrating to fix one thing, the others appear.

Also when I start to feel depressed I also start to thing in a deterministic way as >>9080 said and I don't believe in any change, however usually it stops ater I get better. The other thing is the impact of the people who are surrounding you, because usually you are becoming just like them so it's important to contact with people who have the traits you wouldlike to gain.

So I wish you all good luck with working on yourselves. I know it sounds cliche but simply don't give up and keep going.

  No.9100

lots of insightful replies. im in a very new situation now, my behaviour and personality that protected me before is no longer helpful. I had forgotten who i was because i had this reclusive shy and fake personality to protect me. so now im trying to remember who i really am, and im finding out a lot of things i dont like about myself as ive opened myself up to other people. I know im changing right now, ive been crying a lot and thinking a lot and dreaming a lot and walking a lot. i just dont know, will I suddenly have a realization and moment of acceptance, or will it be slow. When you guys changed yourselves in the past did it just suddenly happen or was it a process.

  No.9107

>>9100
It's a fight, it's never going to be overnight, and I know if is like kicking dead whales down the beach right now, but don't stop thinking about it, I mean, take some time here and there, but just don't avoid your flaws, it'll be work, but you'll be all the happier for overcoming them, good luck.

  No.10447

Yes, yes you can.
I recently found, that by the help of other people it is possible to change for the better and to get more comfortable with yourself.
I made this experience through my first girlfriend.
I felt and did things I never thought i could. On the one hand, experiencing love and other feelings for another person, like I never imagined, that I could.
On the other hand talking about my problems and expressing my feelings in a way, I never could in my life so far.
So ye because of that I think that it is possible for a person to fix their issue or to get better.

  No.10451

>>10447
Yeah OP and im actually exactly the same. My first girlfriend did change me a lot for the better, and it was the first time I truly loved someone and the first time i felt loved, and it was the first time i had someone i looked up to and could be 100% honest with, but when she left me I realized there was a lot of things fundamentally wrong with me. I had changed a lot on the surface but some deep rooted things about me im having trouble changing.

  No.10456

>>9076
Part of being happy with yourself is being humble and not judging your peers based on their appearance. When one of my co-workers buys new clothes, gets a haircut, or sports a new pair of glasses, typically they have to make me acknowledge them for me to notice. When I talk to people, I judge them based on the intelligence of their arguments and not on how long their hair is or how expensive or unique their clothes are. If people decide to make fun of me because I wear old clothes, I really can't give enough of a soykaf to get angry.

  No.10457

>>10456
I think its important to look good though. Do whatever you want with your hair and clothes of course, but its important to keep your hair and face clean. If anything and most importantly so you feel good about yourself. But I suppose of you dont judge on appearance you wont judge yourself either.

  No.10480

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>>10451
Mfw everyday im so fuarrrking scared that she might leave me, because theres so much she showed me and im feeling so good with her. And eh... Im fuarrrking scared.
It would fuarrrking kill me.

  No.10483

>>10480
try to work on that, you cant think it will destroy you. your an irreplaceable unique human being, she isnt you, you are you. you have dreams and strengths and a mind of your own. remember that she liked something about you, if you end up changing a ton because of her influence and becoming reliant on her she may leave. take this time to build character and dont let yourself become dependent on her, i know you probably are a bit already. your obviously better than I was as you still use this site, i dropped everything like this as she was my entire focus.


you cant ever let yourself think you cant survive or thrive without another person. and get the good times while they last, dont take her for granted either. every connection is unique and irreplaceable as well. im def not saying she will leave you for sure, but believing you cant survive without her isnt a good mindset in my opinion at least. so while you are happy and have her nearby try to change that, i dont know if thats possible. i know crisis is where most internal change comes out of, but i know it hurts a lot more to change when you arent happy .

  No.10544

>>10483
I'm honestly allready in too deep.
There are so many variables that make this whole relationship because of my fear of loss so fuarrrking unbearable. I feel so fuarrrking unlikeable and my inferiority complex is sooooo stressy and eh.....

  No.10545

>>10544
Im trying to give some freespace to her and to not bother her all of the time and im trying to be more independent of her but every second I dont spend with her or I have contact with her I feel, like i loose her and I just want to be her everything but she seems to be so much better off alone without me and just with friends than me.
Mfw im pondering 24/7 about fuarrrking everything so I can never just live in the moment and enjoy the time I have with her. My head is always away from the "now" and in some distant, theoretical future, in which I loose her... Im so fuarrrking scared.

  No.10547

>>10545
>>10544

I know how it is. its a bit different for me maybe because the girl I fell in love with I didnt even like that much at first. But as time went on I developed feelings way stronger for her than she ever did for me I got worried. Eventually I learned to just trust her, by the time that happened she betrayed my trust the next time i saw her. Now I trust no one but myself, and I love no one except for maybe some family. But im still alive, and youl live too if the day should come she leaves you.

I was weak and felt inferior too, suicidal and thought about death on the daily. I hated the world, and I had no friends and I was alone. Even thought I was going crazy sometimes because no one seemed to understand me. And when I warmed up to her probably like you I thought I finally found my happiness, that I wouldnt ever have to go to that dark place again. Well I did and il tell you I made it out. I have days I go back, hours I go back but I made and make it out. You would be surprised at how durable and resilient you might be, even in that mind you think is weak.

  No.10548

>>10547
I.. I just hope it will last. There are some things that last forever... right?
Im fighting against my view on relationships, which is, that no relationship lasts forever and love never lasts... But it could... couldn't it?
E.. Eh pls dont answer to that tbh.

  No.10549

>>10548
I.. I hope if the time comes, that i'll be stronger.

  No.10550

>>10548
Its not necessarily about if it lasts forever. Its about making the most of the times that you do have. If you can build something gives you a future you want long term that's great. And if you can't you at least learn enough to try and do it again. It's not always about forever, its about a process of getting closer and closer to what you want.

  No.10588

>>9076
Off topic a bit but do you know where that image is from or what it is? I find it kind of curious.

  No.10591

>>10588
World's End Girlfriend - Hurtbreak Wonderland