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lainchan archive - /q/ - 13065



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No.13065

Is there an actual, legitimate reason you've locked the /civ/ board, or are you just upset that there isn't a total uniformity in political opinion on this site?

  No.13067

>>13065
/civ/ was locked because it could no longer be moderated by the rules set out in the sticky in
>>>/civ/967 .

It was locked until a valid case for unlocking it is made. I don't care about uniformity of political opinion on this site, opinions are and can be diverse and varied.

But just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you can spam soykaf posts and insults that don't adequately discuss or describe your opinion.

TLDR: The soykaf level of /civ/ was too damn high.

See >>12938 for further discussion.

  No.13068

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>>13067
I appreciate the level-headed response. Perhaps you wouldn't mind some input:

The political climate worldwide has become exceptionally polarized. This isn't exactly a new phenomenon, but it's taken on a especially personal tone. Political disagreements are now always couched in some sort of suspicion about the other person, and it seems we always assume the worst. (I'm guilty of it too, and I apologize if the shutting down of /civ/ struck me as authoritarian. I realize now you're trying to cultivate something positive here.) Because "personal" things are now considered "political," it will become difficult to divorce political discussion from personal accusation. However, you will likely find soon that it will be nearly impossible to keep political discussion out of "non-political" boards.

I don't think I need to provide examples of the kind of character assassination that's become commonplace, but I could probably generate a heaping list of the kind of virulent crap that gets thrown at otherwise decent human beings the minute they utter something one class considers "politically incorrect." Many of these examples are not even political figures, but cultural ones. Even if what was said or done has nothing intrinsically political about it, having the "wrong" politics will make you a target.

Lainchan isn't going to change that trend with stronger moderation or better rules. It's a cultural phenomenon that exists beyond the confines of this space. However, completely shutting down a board isn't helpful either. Indeed, it's a terrible precedent. Yes, today you're only shutting down /civ/, but as the "personal is political" notion grows you will eventually be forced to shut down other boards. For example, I remember many years ago being able to talk about video games without also having to discuss the 2nd Amendment and Third Wave Feminism. Today, you can't find a video game site that can escape these concepts. To give you a peek into the future, I was just at a cybersecurity conference last week and---no joke---the keynote speaker (a major pioneer in the field) took a few minutes to plug in support for Planned Parenthood after describing "fake news" as an attack on integrity.

My point is, it would probably be a good idea to have a designated space where discussions about the intersection of politics and cyb stuff could be acceptable because it's going to enter the conversation whether you like it or not. Yes, people will fight, throw unfounded accusations at one another, and say otherwise ridiculous and offensive things, but that is a part of the process.

In any case, thank you for your hard work. I look forward to your solution.

  No.13071

>>13068
>Lainchan isn't going to change that trend with stronger moderation or better rules. It's a cultural phenomenon that exists beyond the confines of this space.
If a "culture" doesn't wish to follow the rules here then they can find another site to soykaf up, and this site can remain for people who aren't part of that "culture". You seem to forget that there have always been communities on the internet that have chosen to go their own way instead of going with whatever other people insist is "mainstream" at the time, and those communities will continue to exist whether you like it or not. In other words you can take your zeitgeist, roll it up, stick it up your ass, and go gargle some drain cleaner.

  No.13072

Politic: when will you learn that no one wants to discuss that. The only reason people argue about politic is that it's a general topic. 90% of /civ/ seems to argue without even knowing the facts. You are just yelling after each other for "ideas" (things that don't make sense for questions like "is Cuba a good country to live in ?" "Is Trump a good president?"...)

  No.13074

>>13068
>However, you will likely find soon that it will be nearly impossible to keep political discussion out of "non-political" boards.
It's surprisingly easy to delete anything that violates the rules, if you didn't know.

  No.13076

>>13068
IMHO, just because it's a trend, doesn't mean we should cultivate it on our own ground.

/civ as I remember was initially started only for the elections, because of the elections, politics threads started popping out everywhere at a very fast speed. Now that those are over, there is not much need for /civ. If however /r becomes full of politics I am sure the mods will bring /civ back. However I hope they do it when and if it is needed, not preemptively.

  No.13079

File: 1488465786280.png (89.14 KB, 200x113, pre-shitposting meditation.jpg)

Politicizing the Lainchan was Kalyx's biggest mistake and attracted mainstream brewing soykaf for well over a year prior to the burger election. Not hard to find political imageboards on the wired. Additional political imageboards are redundant.

Apoliticism sets Lain apart.

  No.13088

>>13071
> In other words you can take your zeitgeist, roll it up, stick it up your ass, and go gargle some drain cleaner.
I just want to point to out that this feral outburst came from a person trying to argue that Lain doesn't have to become toxic.

  No.13089

>>13074
Maybe I did not explain it well. My point wasn't necessarily that every board will have political discussions. Rather, every topic will become politicized. Merely discussing a subject will take on a political overtone.

And the pretense of being apolitical is just that: a pretense. No thinking person believes the site administrators are free from bias.

  No.13094

>>13088
>a person trying to argue that Lain doesn't have to become toxic.
I'm arguing about quality, not "toxicness". The problem with /civ/ was that posters would resort to insults or simply repeating their views again in place of actually defending their views, resulting in no real discussion in many of the threads. There were even threads on /civ/ with chains of posts where posters did nothing but go back and forth basically saying "yeah huh" and "nuh uh" about whether an event happened.

  No.13097

>>13068
>The political climate worldwide has become exceptionally polarized.
It's a shame.

>However, you will likely find soon that it will be nearly impossible to keep political discussion out of "non-political" boards.

We're not going to try. There's no rules about political posts. It's soykaf that's the issue and on that front we're doing the same thing we have been for years.

>Lainchan isn't going to change that trend with stronger moderation or better rules.

We've been doing alright so far. Of course, we're not going to reverse the direction of the world but hopefully we can hold our own.

>completely shutting down a board isn't helpful either

It helped with the immediate problem. It couldn't be moderated well enough.

>you will eventually be forced to shut down other boards

If that's the case then we had a good run but I really don't think it will be.

>it would probably be a good idea to have a designated space where discussions about the intersection of politics and cyb stuff could be acceptable because it's going to enter the conversation whether you like it or not.

That doesn't follow. If anything quite the opposite, we don't need a designated space because it's going to enter into conversation anyway.

>people will fight

Not here they won't. That's not to say that nobody is ever going to lose their soykaf, but personal attacks are against the rules and will get deleted as usual.

So, in short, yes, the world around us has gotten hostile. We intend to stand against that and keep our culture of generally being polite and we're in a good position to do so. /civ/ was a fine idea but, in practice, people's strong convictions lead to soykaf being spilled all over and it wasn't practical to keep cleaning it up. Obviously, this isn't great but, considering the climate, /civ/ was ambitious. Posts that directly signal political affiliation are always a bit bait (in the way they're recieved rather than their intention) and /civ/ was a whole board of nothing but. Locking it isn't going to stop people from discussing political "bait" things if they really want to or make them count to 10 before they start spilling soykaf but it has lowered the prevailence of these things and so made it easier for the mods to deal with.

>>13089
>Rather, every topic will become politicized. Merely discussing a subject will take on a political overtone.
Whoa no. There is far, far too much common ground for this to be the case any time soon and soon on these scales is years. That vernacular specific to a side will begin regularly signalling affiliation regardless of topic is a more legitimate worry than too many topics, especially tech related topics, becoming politicised. Looking over the 6 most recent threads the only thing that could reasonably become so politicised is fashion and that's not likely (others were lisp, python, depression feels, death cults and desktops). Also, these sorts of scenarios, where we buckle to pressure from culture as a whole, are slow and forseeable. In the unlikely event that they start to become an overwhelming problem we'll have time to respond.

>No thinking person believes the site administrators are free from bias.

We don't really expect them to be. Just like we don't really expect users to always stay cool. You just try to do your best.

  No.13108

The solution to this issue is that your political bullsoykaf isn't welcome here anymore. Personally I come here to discuss technology and get away from politics. Bringing your smug brewing soykaf here only hurts the site and makes it more attractive to more of your kind. I'm a fan of this decision and hope that it stays. This is a niche website, and you have no good reason to need a 46th website to soykafpost about Trump on. We fuarrrking get it.

  No.13111

>>13068
>My point is, it would probably be a good idea to have a designated space where discussions about the intersection of politics and cyb stuff could be acceptable
Such a space exists. It's called /p0l/ and /gee/ (different formatting because of spam protection). We don't need such a space here. Seriously, this could be a good idea: Have /civ/ in the board list above, but make it redirect to /p0l/. The actual /civ/ would obviously stay locked.

> because it's going to enter the conversation whether you like it or not.

That's preferable to having it on a seperate board, cause you're implying it will enter conversation regardless of whether there is a separate board.

> Yes, today you're only shutting down /civ/, but as the "personal is political" notion grows you will eventually be forced to shut down other boards.

Slippery slope:
> A slippery slope argument (SSA), in logic, critical thinking, political rhetoric, and caselaw, is a consequentialist logical device in which a party asserts that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant (usually negative) effect, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom. The strength of such an argument depends on the warrant, i.e. whether or not one can demonstrate a process that leads to the significant effect.
Well, neither video game websites nor the conference you were at had to be shut down, so maybe a bit of politics doesn't actually ruin a thing to the point where the thing has to be destroyed.

Also whoever thought that any post containing the name of these other boards on this other imageboard should be assumed spam should seriously reevaluate this notion, at least in the case of /q/