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lainchan archive - /tech/ - 35287



File: 1488856537753.png (65.85 KB, 300x109, pc_logo2_wingless.png)

No.35287

PROMISEDCHAN
(name liable to future change)

There is a new imageboard-software concept in the works. Addressing the problem of powerful moderating positions being compromised and soykafting up the board against the will of board communities and their established board culture.
(See: 4chan, 8/b/, 8/pol/, 8/wx/ etc.)
>Nothing that isn't spam or illegal is deleted, ever. You can subscribe to different moderation teams (and bots) to have the soykaf filtered to your liking. There would be a default moderation team for each board but the default would change if the majority changed the moderators they subscribed to.
>To keep normal people from freaking the fuarrrk out a default profile of moderation subscriptions will be applied by default, the default moderation will be decided by an impartial algorithm that takes in to account the moderation most users in a board choose, weighting the chooses by activity.

Unfortunately there is a shortage of skilled /tech/anons who are willing to assist in the planning and development of this new imageboard concept, which is holding back development.

If you're interested in assisting in the development of this new imageboard concept, please go to
http://8ch.net/polk/res/102.html
If the link is broken, try checking the catalog on
http://8ch.net/polk/

  No.35288

Doesn't this belong in /λ/ instead?

  No.35289

I would be interested in how identity is established. Who or what is the "I" that can subscribe and stuff? IP addresses can be abused (somewhat), and anything else needed to use the board is unnaturally too much, something people will resist.

Also, the idea here seems to be of a sort of democracy, "voting on a government", which cannot really work in a server-client scenario. Someone owns or pays for the server, has full access to it and does whatever he wants to. Even if the software would just put 'all of the chan' in a sort of encrypted blob that cannot be changed or messed with, the software itself can be changed. Nobody would be willing to run a binary blob they have little control over, and even then they would retain the ability to just pull the plug and use that as leverage. There is no point in trusting the developers who know the software and are willing to run it any more than trusting any moderation team.

Unless there are some ready answers or solutions around these problems, I wouldn't say this board software is any more than a creative, but badly informed promise.

  No.35339

>>35287
Please change the font, it's fugly.

  No.35340

>the default moderation will be decided by an impartial algorithm that takes in to account the moderation most users in a board choose, weighting the chooses by activity.

Reddit meets HAL9000

  No.35342

>>35287
>some keep pay the servers bill in IB he don't have the full control

>>35288
I agree.

>>35340
>HAL9000 as a mod
I pretty like this.

  No.35343

>>35342
>I pretty like this.

Honestly when I still used the faster imageboards it often felt like a video game where you're trying to outwit the other guy or beat him to the punch, but hopefully all in good fun. It gets ruined when people take forum play personally and seriously. Adding HAL as mod makes it survival horror. The potential is interesting.

  No.35344

We don't need another meme-tier chan engine in the post-GamerGate, salad days of chan culture ONCE AGAIN obsessing over moderation.

What we need is an engine that is simple, lightweight, well-coded, and does what an imageboard needs to do AND NOTHING MORE. Every chan engine that isn't a piece of hot garbage is choc full of memes. If you want a meme-tier engine, work on making the next vichan first, and then fork it and hack it yourself. Make something that works and is hackable, so that imageboard developers aren't forced to build off the pile of soykaf that is vichan.

This in particular is something I have a problem with:
>There would be a default moderation team for each board but the default would change if the majority changed the moderators they subscribed to.

What you're saying here is that any given group of people can brigade a board to death until the default moderation is shifted towards whatever illusion of consensus has been created by these brigadiers. You're not solving the problems with chan culture and the chan milieu. You're only picking out an easy, tangible target to scapegoat, rather than analyzing the broader conditions that are contributing to the problems with chan culture. And in doing so you, and most other people on chans, are ignoring that forcing the community to moderate itself just doesn't fuarrrking work. It has been shown time and time again that this doesn't work, because all it takes is a small group of dedicated nonfat-soykaf drinkers to create a lot of noise and slowly win over new users until the core group of brigadiers has created a shell of ignorant pawns around them to continue to reproduce whatever narratives they've been trying to push on any given board.

This isn't to say that moderation abuse doesn't happen, but the image of a tyrannical mod oppressing the users is childishly naive and has only taken root in light of all the fuarrrking drama that happened after 4chan and GamerGate. And at the end of the day, it's totally irrelevant how much you fight this, because so long as we continue to use HTTP, there will be centralization and there will be someone who owns the server.

The simple fact is that there's no software solution to politically-motivated, extremist political brigadiers astroturfing imageboards. And they're the real reason why imageboards are dying.

  No.35358

>>35344
>The simple fact is that there's no software solution to politically-motivated, extremist political brigadiers astroturfing imageboards. And they're the real reason why imageboards are dying.

/thread

  No.35422

>>35344
>but the image of a tyrannical mod oppressing the users is childishly naive
I'll be honest, I didn't become a regular on 4chan (or any image board for that matter) until 2012 and mostly stayed on various forums related to my interests before that. Did people always complain about tyrannical mods on 4chan or is that something new that's driven by the lack of normal mods on larger social media sites? It seems like a more recent thing, or at least something I didn't notice until a couple years after I became a regular on 4chan.

  No.35425

>>35287
this is intriguing but i only want to help because i want technical experience

  No.35432

A "image board" with user accounts, huh. Sounds like a imgur / reddit / generic-fourm type site. You should check out existing software first.
http://9ch.in/overscript/ plus google will get you massive results.

I agree with >>35343 the moderation system you're thinking about is going to be so easily abused. If someone makes thousands of bot accounts they could take over boards just by "following".

  No.35435

>>35344
Your critical attitude is good, but I think you're letting it overshadow the potentials here.

Sure, as long as we have HTTP there will be a point of centralization that is undesireable, but NNTP chat already fixed that with distributed HTTP servers that inter-connect and back each other up.

A community that tries to monitor itself at least works better than a community that gets moderated by a single, unaccountable hierarch. This software doesn't seem to be the definite solution, but I'm very glad that this stopped being an idea and is actually starting to be worked out in practice. I too see the pitfalls of an account-based solution. Perhaps a software algorithm that's an extension to users' reports and votes on things could be a better way of doing this?

  No.35442

The problem is that, as you admit, there needs to be at least one supermoderator. Which means that this whole thing effectively becomes like any other imageboard which starts out with a minimal moderation structure except yours allows people to live in a bubble of only content that they agree with. Which is the whole reason 4/8chan are going the way of Reddit, no?

  No.35449

>>35287
So your idea is user enforced social media esque filter bubbles, what could amount to widespread shadowbanning of posters, and a default moderation system highly susceptible to raids by groups that wish to enforce their filter bubble on the users of the site? That sounds fuarrrking terrible.

  No.35450

>>35287
I forgot to mention one problem. Such a system would either make it hard for mods to deal with repeated low effort "rule" (whatever your subscribed list would remove posts due to) breaking without the option to hide multiple posts by a user, or would completely remove anonymity since anyone can be a mod and see other posts by a poster with the aid of some scripting.

I would like to congratulate you, OP. This is by far the worst new imageboard idea I've heard of, and to my knowledge it's actually original instead of taking ideas from other sites like many of the other bad ideas I've heard (such as "redditchan" with post karma which I've seen suggested both ironically and unironically).

  No.35461

let's backtrack for a moment here
what is the purpose of moderation in a chan? is it something really necessary? what objectives are being fullfiled by the existence of moderation? (besides the actual site being suported)
on a chan where all content is out of control of the admin because it's encrypted.

  No.35463

>>35461
Moderation exists in order to make sure posts/contributions stay on topic.

  No.35464

>>35463
in a chan where there isn't control on the content because it's impossible to modify it, then moderation need not apply.

  No.35465

Imageboards have been soiled forever after GamgerGate. It seems like time to give up unless you want to watch everything you know and love get taken over by hateful idiots who just want to further an agenda.

  No.35466

imageboards just simply need 3 things
healthy culture
good moderation
no normal people

like lainchan

  No.35467

>>35465
They seem to have been "soiled forever" every year or two since about 2006, depending on your perspective. I'm not saying you're wrong either. I think they have passed out of fashion though.

  No.35472

>>35464
The content will start being controlled by admins/mods as soon as something dangerous is posted (dox/cp/you name it) because that might get the staff in trouble.

  No.35473

>>35461
>what is the purpose of moderation in a chan? is it something really necessary?
You're joking, right?

  No.35474

>>35473
Every now and then a post like the one you're quoting really brings me back. Not in a good way either. People seem to think that every single imageboard is an extension of /b/ and so the same retarded subculture must apply to it.

One place I used to go had about three daily users and I estimate less than 20 other regulars plus random passers by. About once a month someone would cry about "trip users". Goddamn, it was the same group of people talking to each other every day.

  No.35480

>>35461
System what encrypts content to prevent moderation/censoring and especially distributed systems will very quickly came upon same problems what already broke many other similar systems.

First one is a garbage flood and/or DoS attacks. This will be solved with Proof-Of-Work and/or CAPTCHA things. Posting on such "system" will be slow/painful, but automated floods will be gone. And also some part of community will be also gone because they can't tolerate that complications.

Second one: fat trolls and retards who love to turn everything into feces. They love this because they feel this very "KEK" and they will never stop. Something like Reputation System or Web-Of-Trust will be applied to fix that. And there will be no anonymity anymore. All your posts will be judged to build up your reputation/trust value. This will also scare anons from said system ("trip users" they will cry).

Now we have (for example) PoW+WoT system with pseudonymity. But this system will be skewed in its near future. Because there will be one major group what shares same view on politics/gaming/woman/anime/lisp/etc. And this group will lower trust/reputation of posters they do not like. And if you don't share their thoughts you will be quickly moderated out of the system.

What we will have at the end? Same imageboard with corrupted mods. But this "mods" will not be humans but an artificial algorithm driven by collective unconscious. Is there any difference in being derezzed by .::OneHalf3518::. or by large group of rednecks who believes in Non Flat Earth?

So, moderation is really needed. It's a MUST on an imageboard or everything will turn into a very low quality /b/. And while /b/ is a nice meme and a good weapon for killing time, this is not the main reason which brought imageboards to reality.

  No.35487

what if the site makes you log into a user but all posting is anonymous. as in no user names. the account is only used for saving threads and keeping up with generals

  No.35497

>>35487
Why even bother with accounts for that when it can be done client side? The native extension for 4chan has that functionality.

  No.35503

>>35497
accounts for easier moderation and spam protection. also accounts could be nice in a decentralized system

  No.35504

>>35503
How will you hide account info from regular posters? Decentralized system must share this info among all hubs. So I can start my own hub just for seeing who writes what.

  No.35505

>>35504
yes that is a problem in decentralize but that could also be good since they are the mod of their hub. the main servers could be used like a directory that lists all who want to be listed and promotes random or popular soykaf.

  No.35506

>>35505
basically decentralized 8chan

  No.35507

>>35505
In this case "mod actions" will be applied per hub and not per user. There will be (for example) lainchan hub and 4chan/g/ hub and they will blacklist each other. This can even lead to netsplit and then users will be forced to choose what type of moderation they like more and then join one or another hub.

From my point of view this doesn't differ from what we have today. You already can avoid visiting boards you dislike.

  No.35508

I think it will be more viable to make an unified imageboard client what can browse vichan/infinity/wakaba/kusaba based boards and 4chan. Some board scripts has API, some can be easily parsed from html. And all this can be made into desktop app with things like Electron.

Something like RSS-client where you can create your own /mega/ and post from it on different boards. Bayes spam filtering, threads and posts hiding by regexp, bookmarks and favorites and all other nice stuff you have in things like 4chanX script.

  No.35522

Only people with Acc can post? If you get derezzed, the person who sent you an invite will be derezzed too, and up the latter. Have you thought about this. More obstacles more filtered and nice people? Maybe going as far as putting a registration task, unique to every acc. Like you get a string and a random note that point to the encryption used, or maybe not even that complicated, something like a question only sane mature people could answer, but yeah, you would need to write them...

  No.35537

>>35522
i do not know about registration task but i agree that with the way banning could be handled

  No.36073

'Good that you've already gotten the logo out of the way.

Now, onto the important stuff - what are the banners going to look like and will we allow CP?

  No.36104

OP here, I see this has garnered a lot of controversy. Now this wasn't my idea, I was pulling in people to assist and help out because I saw this idea as having a lot of POTENTIAL. I've got an update on the status of this concept.

--

OP HERE
good news and bad news.

>THE BAD NEWS

is that the lead guy for this project disappeared before this got past the planning stage. (doesnt matter because of the good news)

>MORE BAD NEWS;

double [ᴄᴜᴄᴋ]chan (8chan) got hacked (or at least it appears to have, it still might just be an april fools prank) and the original thread for the development is possibly deleted. However, this still might not even matter because of the good news.

>THE GOOD NEWS

is that both developers of Blazechan and NNTPchan have expressed interest in incorporating this concept into their own imageboard softwares. With the possible loss of the original thread, there is presently no where to organize and group together for collaboration. I will make an effort to contact both developers to see which ones could use some help in accelerating the development/integration of the promisechan concept on their own imageboard softwares; ''and also where to go to assist in whatever ways you can, be it programming-coding-further planning and conceptual development.'' I am determined that this idea will reach it's final realization in one way or another. IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN, I BELIEVE THE FUTURE OF IMAGEBOARDS DEPEND ON IT.

I will make sure to keep you guys posted for any further updates- if I can keep track of all the places I spammed this.