[ art / civ / cult / cyb / diy / drg / feels / layer / lit / λ / q / r / sci / sec / tech / w / zzz ] archive provided by lainchan.jp

lainchan archive - /zzz/ - 485

File: 1418591410608.png (230.63 KB, 300x225, viktor_oliva_the_absinth_drinker_1901.jpg)


While this subject is is unrelated to sleep and dreams as far I know, I think it fit the board nonetheless, since it's mainly about self-hypnosis and mental activity. So lainons, what are your thoughts about the world of tulpa and tulpamancy? Do you practice, or is that just a bs neet/hippie fade?

I'm far from being into fringe matters myself and always kept a fairly materialistic mind (until I read the thread about meditation here and practiced it later I thought it was more or less pointless), yet at least two years ago I dived into tulpamancing, convinced it was if not scientifically proven possible to create and feed a sentient being in one own mind, at least worth a try and not incompatible with a Cartesian mindset. Like many of us here I dreamed and wandered into all kind of dreams and know what the mind is able to create, so why the fuarrrk not?

To this day I'm still far from hallucinating forms or songs (happened maybe 2 or 3 times) like others supposedly managed to do, but so far it's at least a great way to keep the mind busy. It feel like a mix between controlled schizophrenia, mind hacking and sophisticated self-suggestion. I do believe in the sentience of what I created, not as an alien spirit who popped from nothing. It fed on every thing my mind is made, but manages to keep away from the primary layers of thought-patterns.


I'm pretty interested in tulpamancy. I've been practicing for years, I have two tulpas now.

Honestly I think this board is the perfect place for this type of discussion as I personally didn't really believe tulpamancy was a legitimate practice until I had a bit of a revelation in response to long-running practice with lucid dreaming:

I find, while lucid (and I mean in "absolute" control of a dream), I am always and unfailingly unable to control the reactions of characters in a dream if I should tell them that I'm dreaming. I'm not even able to predict how characters will react in a dream. Often times they'll deny it, some will outright confirm it and go on to say the most bizarre things, I've even had a character ask me: "Can you control my thoughts then?" after telling them that we are in a dream.

I guess what I'm getting at here is that on some level our minds seem to be capable of "emulating" personalities to an extent beyond conscious self-talk to convince ourselves that these personalities exist. I think even beyond our own ability to control such a thing.

I've on several occasions since gone into lucid dreams to have incredibly visual interactions with my tulpas. I'll say this much: I also believe in their sentience, but it makes me question my own that much more. How different am I, and my personality from a tulpa, for example? Are tulpas branches off from me, as a person? Or am I and my tulpas branches off from some sort of central psyche?


File: 1418652787501.png (1.38 MB, 157x200, Bilibin._Baba_Yaga.jpg)


>I'll say this much: I also believe in their sentience, but it makes me question my own that much more. How different am I, and my personality from a tulpa, for example? Are tulpas branches off from me, as a person? Or am I and my tulpas branches off from some sort of central psyche?

You highlight an interesting perspective. From the beginning I kept questioning my self about the sentience of the tulpa and was rather obsessed with "parroting" but I rarely ponder about mine.

I'll jump on this occasion to ask you some questions if you don't mind : Like, could you talk (a little) about your way of "forming" the tulpa? I read that the easiest way was to talk to it about anything, but I couldn't stop thinking about how useless it was since we were more or less the same person. The only thing I dared to talk about was, well, sentience, my thoughts about tulpamancing, and general meta.

Also, how do you deal with parroting? After a year still found myself quite clueless to distinguish actual tulpa "messages" from random rubbishes and not-so-obvious parroting.


Although I can't really offer any insight that hasn't been explored elsewhere online before, I can tell you what I've experienced firsthand. I spent a lot of time with "active forcing." I accidentally started this process before I was even aware of tulpas.

When I was incredibly young I was very much so an "escapist." I created this incredibly detailed, yet small "world" I would escape to in my head. Around my middle school times I found myself imagining myself being there for hours at a time. This translated excellently into having a "wonderland" for forcing my tulpa, a process I began in highschool around grade 11. To give you a fair ballpark of where I'm at, I've had a little over four years since then to work on developing my tulpas.

I am a strong believer that visualization is the key. Even when I was forcing my tulpas to develop their personalities I did so in a visual way, and honestly I didn't spend much time focusing on personality traits for them, somehow knowing that they were being "raised" by me and in a environment I created to feel comfortable in I knew that their personalities would turn out to be very agreeable with myself, I guess we're stuck together so simply by nature we're friends. The traits I did impose on them I found that I would spend more time visualizing my tulpas with nuances, gestures or hobbies that aligned with those traits.


I don't want to talk your ear off here, but in terms of dealing with parroting and distinguishing your tulpa's words from abstract/random thoughts I can really only say what I've experienced first hand, for myself I found the following really helped:

1. Writing down bits of dialogue that you've exchanged with your tulpa in a journal. I think this concept is much like having a dream diary, it really helps to solidify your memory which can in turn provide a stabler means to communicate with/hear your tulpa. If you feel uncertain about something being genuine conversation, don't include it.

2. As I had two tulpa (and this was quite rare for the first two years) I would on occasion experience speech between my tulpas. Having multiple points to "calibrate" the "channel for speech" from was beneficial for me. By extension, I've read some people imagine introducing their tulpa to characters as a way of inviting conversation from their tulpa. For example "How would my tulpa speak to my grandmother?" or "How would my tulpa hold a conversation with Lain?" Trying to keep yourself as the central figure of your tulpa's attention is almost as demanding as maintaining your concentration on your tulpa and limits the dimensions of their personality you can explore.

Being able to distinguish randomness from your tulpa is an art/skill that absolutely isn't developed overnight. I'm not certain there is any single "trick" you can use, if there is I'm unaware of it. Through continuous practice it just becomes easier. I mean lets face it, we can both say we've been working on developing our tulpas for years but in the end only a tiny fraction of each year was actively spent developing them.



That's some very valuable inputs, thanks you.

I really like the idea of giving the tulpa an "active witness" role. I could solves this problem where I imagine conversation (which is common way of organizing our thoughts) with people I sometimes barely know or even just created from stereotypical profiles rather than to my own tulpa, as it is far more easy to fake reactions from people of "flesh and mind" than with a newborn entity with a few broad personality traits and experiences to rely on.


sounds like Eclipse Phase style forking. Pretty cool, mang.


>> (until I read the thread about meditation here and practiced it later I thought it was more or less pointless),

Fear not, ask me soykaf, i can get you there.



Asking stuff about meditation? Well I'm still struggling to keep my mind focused on just breathing and practicing on a daily basis, so I don't know exactly what I could ask for now, beside "Where will it lead me?". I will buy the "Mindfulness in plain english" as suggested in the said thread, I hope it's worth his status of "non bullfeces guide to meditation".



I'm currently being lazy, but ill get back to you later with some human-readable instructions. Mindfulness is only part of practice and your struggle with focusing is easy fix if you know what you are doing.


Anyone who has "created" a tulpa- is the concept of losing control over it, or it becoming malevolent a mere stigma associated with tulpamancy, or is this possible?


bumping this, I also want to know.


Honestly I think small places like this are the only way to actually talk about tulpas without having to deal with the soykaf community
Their nature means that they, the people who make them, and consequently the cultures that rise up around it, are incredibly prone to pure, distilled autism, rivaling that of even ponies, to the point where even chan culture can't filter most of it out on a large scale



First of all you need to be not fuarrrked up in your ways during the day. That means your attention should be directed away from stress during the day.

Then you sit down, lie down, hang down, be in position that you are used to be at ease.

Then you need to get your mind steady and clean of thought. To do that, instead of fighting with all of them, you focus on one specific thought. To do this without exhausting brain twisting, you need to create and look for pleasant sensations arising specifically from focusing on that thought. That is a 'cheat' to your brain. It will naturally keep focusing on what is pleasurable and if you find focusing on that thought pleasurable and relaxing, your mind will become more calm by itself and increase the 'focus' by itself.

So now your status should be as such: little to no thought arising in mind, body is non-existent or significantly less perceivable. Pleasant sensation arising from sustained attention. Remember - you are to enjoy the pleasant sensation, not ask more or do whatever. Just enjoying it will increase the focus, but wanting, waiting will create thought and that thought will break your focus and therefore pleasant sensation.

When you have sustained pleasant sensation without break from thought for 10 minutes, you should be in different space, out of your mind, soykafting bricks and you are not supposed to do anything, just become more calm and do the same and it gets better and better.

Progress is incremental, you are just letting go not-pleasant habits of mind and enjoying pleasant sensations.

Usually object is *breathing*, not *breath*.

After disappearance of pleasant bodily sensation, starts the stuff that needs different language, until then, good luck human.


Sounds similar to astral projection.


I have been reading tulpa forums for quite a while, from beginning of threads on 4chan/mlp/ (when I was grose neckbearded NEET) and yes, as you said many people experience tulpa getting out of control or even getting angry at their own host trying to fuarrrk with them and even in some cases trying to kill them.
Most of tulpaforcers(in my opinion) have experienced this "taking over" in some degree. While some of them work on the tulpas for them to fully take over their bodies(which is possible), that is extremely dangerous and giving more control to tulpa which in turn makes it able to take more control over you. There are some dangers to creating a tulpa, but as there are tutorials for creating a tulpa there are also tutorials for destroying one.
The simplest method is ignoring it and not giving it any attention(taking your mind off of background tulpaforcing and taking attention to something else). Although there were some cases in which tulpa might get angry at you if you stop giving it attention, the killing of tulpa is pretty straight forward and effective


Because it is similar. Serious practice share the same root or 'door' as little more ignorant things like astral projection. Even in shamanism what one would know as 'trip' is a nimita. Its just more evidence that this is worth investigating.


>>that is extremely dangerous and giving more control to tulpa which in turn makes it able to take more control over you

You are not what you control, your fear is pointless.


but what I control is part of who I am.
While I am not my arm, my arm is certainly me!


Quite certain I created a tulpa. Of course, it's very vague and I have to constantly think of it in order for it to seem present. Though, it's odd how prior to it's creation I felt so alone, but soon thereafter it's creation I felt not alone.


That's not true. No offense, but that's your shallow understanding.


can you explain why?


Well, let us note that the point of a tulpa is to eventually believe that it is it's own entity- thus has it the ability to harm it's creator just as much as would anyone else that was their own entity themselves.


What a relief it is when you understand its not you.

'Me' is a shorthand for addressing compound phenomena you perceive as 'this is me' Perception can range from each individual compound active in high perception - In human language that is - Someone thinks he is hes arm/body and mind, emotion, Someone thinks he is is body, aaand 'soul'. Then someone thinks hes hes body, sould, hes job, hes left arm, hes pain, hes chair, hes soykaf, hes cake and suffering and misery. Yet Not one of that is.


I am thinking of creating a lain tulpa
Anyone wanna give me tips on where to start, what guides were best for you and how long will it take?


Are you from 2010's /x/ or 2012's /mlp/?

Anyways I wouldn't create a tulpa, can be really difficult to kill.
Also when you realize you are too much into it you know you are becoming legitimately crazy.


I've read about tulpas, and I'd love to create one, but seems like it takes too much day time to do so.


>controlled schizophrenia


File: 1425850877711.png (1.68 MB, 200x153, Böcklin_Die_Heimkehr_1887.jpg)

I'm from neither of those, I get to know about tulpa on a picture coming from a mediafire repo (infographics something), and then on a now defunct imageboard, so yes maybe in late 2012.

It's been quite some time since I almost stopped to care about nursing and interacting with my tulpa (yes, it take a lot of time and commitment, like everything related to dream stuffs) but I'm sure it is still there. "My" voice merges with its own most of the time but sure I regularly got comments not coming from "me", at least not my conscious self.



From what I've heard, this can happen, but only if the host mistreats the tulpa or otherwise has mental disorders. Tulpas are just people like anyone in the real world and, if you raise them properly, they are generally good natured and not prone to harm their host.


I know we don't like the other place here, but reddit.com/r/tulpas has some good info in their sidebar


Allow me to be the devil's advocate here but I was manic once and firmly believed that I had induced that state through my own actions via some mental exercises and experiments which I put myself through. Not being in that state nowadays, I realize that this belief, that I had caused the state of mind I was in, was actually part of the delusion itself. Becoming manic simply made me curious about the world in a new way, which led me to exploring these things in the first place and not the other way around.

Everything I'm reading about having tulpas sounds like what friends told me about being schizophrenic and having "friends" who weren't actually there or thinking there were ghosts in their houses (they each believed these were real beings) My initial, cynical reaction to all this is that people who think they are creating tulpas are just undergoing what those people went through and the idea that you are creating intentionally it is part of the disorder. Your initial curiosity about the subject is an effect, not the cause.

I'm not trying to start fights, that's honestly what I'm getting from reading about this.



I'd echo that sentiment. I experienced an episode fairly recently where I was completely obsessed with someone - I thought that they were a physical manifestation of my mind, born of my psyche and living in the real world. I concluded that this person was my "designated partner". Of course we were meant to be together, I can feel it! It must be true!

Looking back, I can now see that my then-increasing anxiety and stress was the source of this temporary (2-3 months or so) insanity. Mental illness is kind of gorgeous in it's ability to completely rewrite your perception of what is rational and what is irrational.

That said, I wouldn't go so far as to call everyone interested in tulpas insane. I'm sure there are a handful of people with mental issues, but I'm also sure that there are just as many people who are just interested.


Cool, I was afraid I would be taken for a trouble maker here. I should add that despite the hell some schizophrenics go through, there are occasional episodes when they enjoy visits from "friends" and the thing is, being around them it almost becomes convincing. One girl I knew had a little faerie that lived in her closet and she would sit in there when she was depressed and the faerie would cry along with her and she felt less alone. She even had a name for the creature. She talked about it enough times that I started to feel like the faerie was there myself, like there was a third person in the room I couldn't see. Being in her world and adjusting to her way of speaking and of seeing things, I began to enter a mindset which allowed for phenomena like this to exist but looking back it seems naive or something. Like I went through something tulpa training by osmosis.

The thought occurs that this tulpa stuff might be a useful toolkit for schizophrenics, to control their delusions and their ego splinters rather than being haunted by them. Maybe I'll look for some articles about this. I definitely know some people who would be interested.



I would hope that opposing viewpoints would at least be considered, especially with something as potentially damaging and delusion-inducing as tulpamancing.

The faerie tulpa sounds nice though, tbh I wish that I had something like that when I was going through severe bouts of depression up until fairly recently. At the same time though I think I'd rather just have conversations with myself - act as a self-therapist, work out and get to the source of my issues on my own. I don't want to go down that potentially slippery-as-fuarrrk slope again after the episode I had. But it'd be nice if the practice of tulpamancing could legitimately help people like your friend.

Are there any threads on lainchain about this kinda thing btw? Self-therapy, dealing with mental illness, etc.


>as you said many people experience tulpa getting out of control or even getting angry at their own host trying to fuarrrk with them and even in some cases trying to kill them.

Perhaps, if we look at tulpas as not separate entities but embodiments of portions of their creator, could this effect just be the manifestation of some form of self hatred the creator of a tulpa might have? Or perhaps self fear?

>Most of tulpaforcers(in my opinion) have experienced this "taking over" in some degree

Is it that they're being "taken over" or merely realizing that they "are" the tulpa? (Again, assuming personal manifestation rather than a separate entity.)


>Implying you have full control